Friday, September 16, 2005

POLITICS AND PC
In today's issue of the LA TIMES (9/16) Sam Quinones writes about SNYs, internal Eme/NF politics and what could be the beginning of a new paradigm behind the walls. He touches on so many aspects of this situation that the article could be used as a jumping off platform for a month-long discussion.

The main point of the piece is that Eme/NF internal politics are creating dropouts at historic rates. It's a situation where the prison gangs are basically eating their own.

Let's look at this. There are a number of reasons why carnals and associates drop out. One is they're looking at some long time and decide to catch a break by debriefing and going into PC. The other is that they've broken some reglas and been put in the hat. The last one is the one that should have the big homies rethinking their stand about politics, personal feuds and staking a bigger claim to a pie that seems to be shrinking.

I'm a big believer in studying history. When you know what happened in the past, you might get a clue to what might happen in the future. When Chuco Castro debriefed back in the early nineties, one of the several reasons he gave was that he realized he's taken out more than a few brothers and associates that hadn't done anything wrong. But he went ahead and took care of business anyway because those were the rules. Somebody shows up on a lista and the rules say you got to do what you got to do. Chuco realized that even straight up soldiers who dotted all the I's and crossed all the T's, kicked up, played fair and followed the rules were getting put in ditches because somebody, somewhere, for some unknown reason decided they belonged there.

Chuco came to the realization that if he stayed in the mix long enough, even he could end up on somebody's list for reasons he couldn't even guess at. This is nothing new. But way back then, it was rare that somebody of his stature had to watch his back from the very people that claimed to be his closest allies.

What seems to be happening now is an acceleration of that reality among more and more soldiers. I mentioned a few posts back about the change in the power structure in County. That situation is a straight up power struggle. A "mine's bigger that yours" macho, power move that's only going to create more fault lines and fractures inside the organization. Going back to history, it's a replay on a smaller scale to the insane, self-destructive moves that Nicky Scarfo played in North Jersey. He whacked anybody and everybody, even his own blood family members in an out-of-control demonstration of raw power. The business and the personal got so mixed up in his head that the whole organization imploded from the inside. All the Feds did was find somebody in the mix afraid enough of nutcase Scarfo to tip the scales a little bit. We're seeing a lot of that right now in the Sureno Nation.

What the growth in PC yards is doing is taking away the brothers' power to project their influence beyond the SHUs. They've traditionally had the power because they had access to main yards. As more PC yards coming on line, the power to call shots dimishes. If you play that paradigm out to its logical conclusion, you'll be left with a handful of shot callers thrashing around in their SHUs, isolated from the rest of the inmate population and desperately looking for any willing homie to carry out orders.

PC or SNY yards, as Quinones alludes to, no longer have the negative connotation they used to. It used to be that solid soldiers, North or South, would rather take their chances getting stabbed up in mainline than being PC'd up with chesters, snitches and queens. That's not the case anymore. And you can't blame them. If the very people you grew up with and shed blood for can't be trusted not to turn on you on the say-so of some paranoid carnal in the SHU, then hey, PC sounds like the deal of a lifetime. Better to be a live dropout than bleeding out in a shower or choked out in your cell and not even knowing why the hell you just got hit.

Your thoughts?

127 comments:

Anonymous said...

does anyone out there see another hispanic faction challeging le, if so who

angel said...

thats a dumb comment, hey problem is there are too many different fools calling shots

Anonymous said...

Well my take is with the homies that call shots away at Pelican Bay, that leaves someone else to fuck shit up at whatever institution your at. People are being hit for reasons that can't be answered. I see some serious shit about to happen around the CDC and the shot callers for MM are gonna have to regroup. While the NF shot callers got sent off to the feds, the new "Mesa" is not carryin business with any structure or honor and their ways have made thousands of soldiers second think their rules. As crazy as it sounds things are beginning to change and one day the North and South might fight a united front, but a lot of shit is gonna go down before that happens.

Anonymous said...

good comment

Anonymous said...

These are different times and the gang shit is getting played out. When I was a lil vato, raza didn't have new cars or own houses, now we do and being a square with a nice house, nice car, and firme ruca seems alot better than being known as a chingon in the pen (our only chance at fame back then). The lure just isn't what it once was. Another thing, The police didn't have half of the technology for fighting crime they do today. I'm not so sure some of those eme legends could do what they did back then today under the advanced crime fighting techniques at LE disposal. Its alot harder to get away with crime.

Anonymous said...

sensitive needs yards....there are already a bunch of them, what i want to know about is the riots in quentin and calipat (or was it centinela?

Anonymous said...

what is a chester

Anonymous said...

Russian models!

Anonymous said...

>>what is a chester<<

you never heard of chester the molester??

Anonymous said...

EVENTUALLY ALOT OF PEOPLE WILL GROW TIRED OF PAYING UP TO THOSE CARNALGAS AND GO TAXFREE AS IT IS ALREADY STARTING TO HAPPEN ON THE STREETS, THINK ABOUT IT, WHO REALLY WANTS TO PAY TO BE A GANGSTER ? I CAN UNDERSTAND A HUSTLER WHOS INTO ALL THE MONEY BUT A GANGSTER IS ALL ABOUT THE HOOD AND BANGIN TO THE FULLEST, AND REAL GANGSTERS DONT STAND AT THE CORNER SLANGIN SHIT , MEXICANS NEED TO WISE UP AND SMELL THE CHANATE ? DO WE GO AGAINST OUR OWN BROTHERS AND KEEP BACKING THE CRACKERS AB ? CHALE WE NEED TO TAKE A LOOK AROUND AND SEE WHOS USING WHO, SO SCREW THE AB AND THEM SKINHEADS, ID RATHER BE CALLED A PAISA THAN A SURENO TRADER TO MY OWN RAZA....PURO RAZA UNIDA, CHICANO LIBERATION FRONT 1975-2005?

Anonymous said...

RAZA GET YOUR HUEVOS TOGETHER AND LEARN TO STAND ON YOUR OWN TWO FEET, YOU LOVE TO TALK ABOUT GREENLIGHTERS AND PCS BUT YOU ARE DOING THE SAME SHIT BY PAYING UP FOR PROTECTION THE THOSE HIGHER THAN YOU, I REMEMBER WHEN SURENO MEANT SURENO NOW IM SURE IT MEANS SURADO....AS IN YOUR CALZONES..

Anonymous said...

MY COUSIN UP IN CALIPATRIA SAYS THAT THE WOODS ARE REALLY STARTING TO DISRESPECT RAZA ALOT AND THE SURENOS DONT SAY SHIT BUT LAUGH ABOUT IT , THE SURENOS MUST REALLY THINK THEY ARE HALF WHITE OR SOMETHING LETTING A CRACKER DIS A PAISA, WHERE IN THE HELL DO THEY THINK THERE DECENDENTS WERE FROM ??? WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE..

Don Quixote said...

Hey I don't want to sound like an apologist for the EME but whoever put down those last 3 posts is either very misinformed or is a blatant "agent provateur" trying to incite some kind of pedo within the raza. You should give up that kind of crap and stick to what you might know about. And to have the huevos to use the placaso "Chicano Liberation Front" is really a pedejada. Anyone who has any sense of history or is old enough to remember can tell you that the so called "Chicano Liberation Front" was just that a "Front" that was exposed way back in the 60's as a Gov't chasco to try and incite pendejos to act's of ridiculous violence that would bring down the forces of anti-raza on the people it was claiming to represent. Step out of the dark and tell the truth or get back in your cave and play with yourself.

Anonymous said...

So what's the status in county? Has the power shake-up settled? Did someone finally pay a visit and sort the mess out?

Anonymous said...

FUCK CHICANO LIBERATION FRONT,WE SURENOS DONT THINK WE ARE WHITE WE DO NEGOCIOS WITH AND FUCK PAISAS TELL DISRESPECTS US TOO SO GO GIVES A FUCK ABOUT THEM WETBACK.

Anonymous said...

WHY IS CHUCO CASTRO A RATA IS STILL GIVING ORDER UP IN THE PINTA HE WAS THE ONE THAT GAVE CHAPO THE GREENLIGHT TO DO THAT HIT IN THE VISITA THAT BITCH SHOULD BE IN A PC YARDA NOT CALLING SHOTS THAT SPEAK LOW OF US AND MAKE US SURENOS LOOK LIKE PUSSYS.

Anonymous said...

SEPT 10, 10:30 AM AVENAL STATE PRISON, HU-530 AND 510 ANOTHER RIOT CONSISTING OF DRUNK WHITES DISRESPECTING SOUTHERN HISPANICS,WEAPONS WERE POSTED IN THE UNITS AFTER INITIAL DISTURBANCE, SHOTS WERE FIRED AFTER THEY WENT AT IT AGAIN, THE 40S DID THERE JOB (HANDBALL GUNS)AND NO STAFF WERE HURT.32 SOUTHERNERS WERE SHIPPED OUT TO KVSP,LOOKS LIKE THE SHIT IS GOING TO HIT THE FAN BETWEEN SUR AND AB.

Anonymous said...

CIM, MONDAY NIGHT 2130 HOURS, MEXICANS AND WHITES GOT DOWN THERE WAS ALOT OF GROUPING GOING ON, INMATES REFUSED TO GET ON THERE BUNKS FOR COUNT AND THEN THE FIGHTING BROKE OUT, THE WHOLE GYM STATED GOING OFF AND THE BLACKS HID IN THE SHOWERS, LOTS OF ROUNDS WERE FIRED AND A SERT TEAM WAS SENT TO RESPOND,THE MEXICANS WON THIS BATTLE THOUGH. KEEP YOU POSTED ON THE NEXT ONE.

Anonymous said...

FIRST OF ALL PAISAS ARE THE ONE'S THAT ACT LIKE THE SURENOS AREN'T SHIT,UNTIL THEY GET IN A WRECK,THEN THEY WANT TO RESPECT,PAISAS TRY RUN THEIR OWN THING,UNDER THE UMBRELLA OF THE SUR,THE SOUTHSIDE IS ALWAYS STANDING UP FOR THE PAISASWHEN IT COMES TO RACE ISSUES,BUT IF A PAISA
OWES OR GET'S IN A WRECK,THAT'S ON THEM,AND NOBODY EVER SAID THAT THE SUR IS TOGETHER WITH THE WOODS,THEY JUST HAVE AN AGREEMENT,THAT'S ALL,PLUS IF THE PAISAS ARE BEING DISRESPECTED THAT BAD BY THE WOODS,MAYBE THEY SHOULD HAVE ENOUGH HUEVOS RANCHEROS,AND DEFEND THEMSELVES,RIGHT?THE SUR IS NOT GOING TO BABYSIT EVERYONE,THAT'S PROBABLY WHY THEY LAUGH,CAUSE WHEN YOUR OUT HERE THE PAISAS HAVE A REPUTATION FOR VIOLENCE,AK-47'S,CUERNO DE CHIVO'S
THEY BANG ON EACH OTHER AT THE NIGHTCLUBS AND BARS,SO THERE'S NO EXCUSE FOR THEM TO BE DISRESPECTED,THEY SHOULD KICK SOME WHITE ASS RIGHT? PLUS ONCE IN A WHILE YOU GET THESE ANTI-SUR TAX-FREE,IDIOTS TALKING SHIT,NOW I SUPPOSE THEY!!!,ARE THE ONES THAT WOULD GET PUNKED IN JAIL,EVEN BY THE WOODS,SHIT EVEN THE PAISAS COULD PROBABLY HANDLE THE GREENLIGHTERS,

Anonymous said...

[If enough people drop out and hook up, they can become a new gang comprised of gang members from the north and south. One big califas click]

Sounds good but it doesn't work that way. It also defeats the reason for dropping out.

In the gang underworld (at least in the Chicano gang culture) once you drop out, it is necessary to "snitch" about something in order to attain this PC status or "sensitive" status.

So, it stands to reason, once you "snitch", you have already crossed that line from whence there is no turning back. ALL convicts will remember that you pc'ed and you are no longer considered worthy of being a "fellow pinto", let alone start your own prison gang.

Someone is pulling your leg "big time" on this blog if you listen to this kind of "pc rhetoric". It doesn't work that way in the "real" gang world.

But it makes for nice Blog gossip.

KMA

Anonymous said...

there already is a PC prison gang.eme wont mention it, becuase alot of eme dropouts are affiliated,they are called 25ER'S THEY ARE STILL KILLERS BY TRADE SO DONT LET THAT FOOL YOU..there is alot of pc yards but that should tell u that EME isnt orginized as they use to..so to all u TAX FREE,STAY DOWN FOR YOUR CAUSE,BECUASE WE CHICANOS,ARE STILL KILLERS....MARAVILLOSO....

Anonymous said...

Hey anonymous,
The one who posts in caps talking like he is to "Hard for the Yard" when you get busted make sure you raise your hand nice and high.

"Youngster with Game"

Anonymous said...

[25ER'S THEY ARE STILL KILLERS BY TRADE SO DONT LET THAT FOOL YOU...so to all u TAX FREE,STAY DOWN FOR YOUR CAUSE,BECUASE WE CHICANOS,ARE STILL KILLERS .... MARAVILLOSO....

Dream on, Senor Anonymous. That's like saying there's a secret society of homosexual killers who are "going down for the cause".

KMA hit it on the nose. A peceta is no longer welcomed by Surenos; a peceta is no longer welcomed by Nortenos; A peceta can pretend to be down for the gangster cause but a peceta has now "crossed into the twilight zone" and is an outcast.

You can run with your kind and lie to each other. You can talk big on a computer. But you will NEVER be accepted by the majority.

You are TAX FREE for sure because you are locked up in PC. Hey, that rhymes:

Tax Free and Locked up in PC.

East L.A. Boy

Anonymous said...

Yo, Maravilloso ....

It's TAX TIME !! I bet you had nightmares about the Revenue Man coming to get your peceta ass.

Anonymous said...

Is it me or are Mexicans the "new" blacks in society? What I mean is, are we turning into what the black community did in the 60's, 70's and 80's? Are we starting to shit on our own kind? Are we shitting in our own backyard? I think we are. Hitting vatos for nothing, robbing paleteros, politcing about nonsense. We are turning into the "new blacks" of the 21st. century. Even though more Meixcanos are moving places and doing things, we still seem to be taking a step backwards. It's like glamorizing your failures. People here and in the calles want to be associated with vatos from the "M" Like thats something cool and attainable. Even this Chicano rap is turning and looking like mayates. When people go to jail, shouldn't they be sorry and want to get out? It seems now that people look forward to hitting the main line and then shanking another carnale because of different opinions, or the way he looked at someone, or a diffent accent. Does this REALLY make any sense? I think not. This whole SNY is a wake up call. Why put your life on the line to uphold another vatos "reputation"? I don't give a fuck about some vato from the I.E who supposedly laid a path years ago. Fuck that, go out and earn your keep. It you have a "rep" to uphold, then keep earning it. Right? Does anyone else feel the same? I think people are getting some sense into them and turning the other cheek. Let niggers and wops go at it and keep doing what they are doing. Keep the Mexicano culture and history in tact. Keep the hard working legacy of the Mexican up to par and leave the bull for the negros and hueros. Tu sabes?

Anonymous said...

[Are we starting to shit on our own kind?]

Either you are naive or just too young to see that this has been happening for a looong time.

The community members who aspire to "be like Ganster Mike" have a different value system than the average American or the average Chicano. A made EME member is treated in his barrio much the same as the war hero who returns from the service of his country to the congratulations of his people.

The fact that they do exploit their own is not lost on them. They become part of a system (also known as, "climbing the criminal corporate ladder") that shits on it's own in a similar manner that successful Chicano politicians climb their corporate ladder and, guess what: they too shit on their own!

Either way, it's a shitty deal with one being legal and the other illegal. Either way, the shit hits those at the bottom.

We can ramble all we want on this Blog about uprisings and tax free and Mongols cutting deals and who's the baddest this and baddest that and whose penis is bigger in Santa Monica or East L.A.

Bottom Line: The EME is here to stay and the solution to eliminating the EME is to eliminate street gangs. How do we do this? That is the Million Dollar question.

I know there's no hope in what I say but that's the way it is. We can "spin" all we want but reality rears its ugly head in the meantime.

Straight Ahead !!!

KMA

RetiredJoker said...

Great Article.
As you can see, some of the veteranos are finally seeing the light and that power corrupts all. Not to mention that drugs make you paranoid and lets not forget that most of these shot callers are tecatos.
This single line right here explains it the most accurately on how things get fucked up...
"Greed, lack of control and drug addiction breed feuds, rip-offs and betrayals on the street. Gang members use the drugs they're supposed to sell or rob mafia-protected dealers. "
Thats why so many soldados who thought they were down for the cause and do thier part are having a change of heart. Why put in all the work when all it takes is one lil false rumor to get your name on a list?
As evident on the blog however, for every hard banging veterano that drops out because they now see the light, there are at least 2 youngsters to take their place so they can be in the gangster spotlight and be down for the crown. How long well it take the new recruits to see how the leaders in Pelican Bay really have no clue whats happening on the outs?
You all know its true. Look at the power struggles internally between both groups. In Eme's case, due to taxation, you have defection at the street level also. Norteno's are mostly united on the streets, but if they were to be taxed, you never know.
As more dropouts keep looking over thier shoulder thinking they have been green lighted, more of them when not only got to SNY but will also turn states evidence. La eme and La Nuestra Familia will realize that what they once did to keep the soldados in line by whacking their own is now the thing that is making the same vatos drop a dime on them so save their own lives.
Corner an animal into a cage and they will do whatever it takes for survival.

Anonymous said...

Whats the significance of the number 25? Someone on this board keeps talking about 25ers and their opposition to the EME. Where does that name come from?

Anonymous said...

25's are punk ass ratas that started their own gang in pc who the fuck are going to bang against?there are no surenos or nortenos in pc once you get to pc you are a nobody, why? dont they stay in main line and claim pecetas and see how down they really are.
once you hit pc you are out of the gang world mr maravilloso dont forget that you are a punks ass pc leva. por vida.

Anonymous said...

well for those of u who do'not know.there already is a prison gang formed by eme drop out's,and green lighters that just caught up in the mix,and they are still killers by trade,except the surenos dont mention them,becuase its not for their bennifit,,what im saying is threw out the system,there are pc yards everywere u go now,some pintas only have i active yard,it seems that alot of surenos are starting to take all VACANCY'S in .pc. yards,lol.well before u know it the 25ers,and pc's will be running the pinta..to much power play among all carnales..so to all u SURENOS dont be a bunch of CHAPETES and pussies,stand tall and proud; and dont have your money taken from another man...lol...MARAVILLOSO...TAX FREE..

Anonymous said...

To Retired Joker, hey Homes why do you keep mentioning Eme/Surenos and NF/chanates in the same sentence. They are not even in the same league, as stated before on this blog Eme and AB hooked up a long time ago due to many business and personal connections and it's AB that needs help in the pinta. NF needs the protection of the mayuga's to survive due to being minor league and sinverguensa's.

Anonymous said...

A male Sur groupie, what a shame.

RetiredJoker said...

I mention them in the same sentence because the article was referring to both sides. If they are not same league than they are at least two fish in the same pond.
The NF has smaller numbers but just as capable.
But I'm going to go off into some net banging rant saying one side is better than the other. Yes, the NF and La Eme are very different. One taxes and one doesn't, some LE say the NF is also more organized,they have to be, just to survive but there is politics on both sides just as the article says.

Anonymous said...

Joker,
you don't owe this internet gangsta any explanation. It sounds like one of those surena cheerleaders that were so vocal banging sur and clowing norcal on the web until they lost the battle of wits: we know who they are: the ones that are silent now as they fear going against the grain since the blog took an stand against gangs.

Anonymous said...

Yeah Joker,
Tell him to eat a dick up! a big East Los dick if thats what makes him happy!

Anonymous said...

FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO HAVENT A CLUE, A 25ER IS A VATO WHO IS DOING 25 TO LIFE AND THERE IS A BUNCH OF THEM IN THE PINTAS, JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE IN PC DONT MEAN NADA, IT MEANS THEY KNOW HOW TO LIVE, ITS LIKE THE SURENOS WHO LIVE IN EAST LOS MOST OF THEM STAY INSIDE CAUSE MARAVILLA IS ON THE STREETS, MOST OF THESE SURATAS SAY THEY ARE PUTTING IN WORK BUT THE REALITY IS THAT BEFORE THERE WAS A GREENLIGHT, MARAVILLA ON MARAVILLA SHOOTINGS PRODUCED MORE GANG DEATHS PER YEAR ABOUT 2 OR 3 VATOS PER HOOD. NOWADAYS SINCE THE GREENLIGHT A SURAT HAS ONLY TAKEN THE LIFE OF ABOUT 6 VATOS FROM MARAVILLA BUT THEY HAVENT A CLUE HOW MANY OF THEM HAVE BEEN DOWNED BY MARAVILLA SINCE THEY ARE THE EASIEST PREY TO FIND AT YOUR LOCAL MALL BECAUSE THATS WHERE THE SURADOS STROLL AND YOU KNOW THATS THE TRUTH CAUSE THEY SURE DONT STAND IN THE CALLES LIKE A TRUE SOLDIER DOES, SO WE MIGHT BE PCED IN THE JOINT BUT A SURAT IS PCED IN THE CALLES,LMFAO....

Anonymous said...

LIKE THE HOMIE SAID GO CLAIM YOUR PECETA TAX FREE BULLSHIT IN MAINLINE,YOU GUYS THINK YOU ARE ALL BAD CONTROLING PC YARDAS LOL THE KINGS OF THE RATAS YOU SHOULD BE CALLED,BEING TAX FREE ONLY MEANS YOU CAN PLAY BY THE REGLAS CAUSE YOU ARE ALL A BUNCH OF WANABE'S GANGSTERS SOUTH SIDE WILL ALWAYS CONTROL THE STREETS OF SOUTHER CALIFAS AND THE PINTAS FOR EVERY SURENO DROP OUT THERE ALWAYS 2 OR MORE SOLDADOS TO TAKE THEIR PLACE SO KEEP ON DREAMING MARAVILLOSO AND NEXT TIME YOU GET LOCK UP WALK THE MAINLINE AND CLAIM YOUR TAX FREE BULLSHIT ITS TRUE THAT THE COUNCIL IS FUCK UP RIGHT NOW BUT THEY WILL GET THINGS BACK IN ORDER SOON,SO JUST KEEP ON DREAMING MARAVILLOSO THAT ONE DAY YOU PUNKS ASS LEVAS WILL TAKE OVER.
GO BE KING OF THE PC RATAS YARD THAT SHOULD MAKE YOU PROUD AFTER ALL THAT ALL YOU GUYS CAN DO BECAUSE IN THE REAL GANGSTER WORLD YOU ARE NADA.

Anonymous said...

Tax Free and Locked up in PC.

East L.A. Boy

FREE AT LAST, FREE AT LAST; THANK GOD I'M FREE AT LAST (MLK)

Anonymous said...

(who are the 25ers)

25ers are a group of homosexual convicts (you have to be 25 or under to join) who were abused in prison and have decided that enough is enough!

Anonymous said...

On September 16, 2005, a book by Ramon "Mundo" Mendoza entitled: Mexican Mafia: From Altar Boy to Hit Man was released in CD form at a law enforcement seminar.

Although it isn't posted on a law enforcement training web site to date, go to: http://convictsandcops.com/book.htm

Many LE guys from various agencies already picked up several copies of this CD so it's out there.

Anonymous said...

C'MON MV IS NOTHING COMPARED TO THE SOUTHSIDERS,EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT!!I DON'T KNOW WHY THIS FOOL KEEPS LYING TO HIMSELF!LIKE IF HE'S TRYING TO CONVINCE EVERYBODY THAT MV IS THE SHIT!!WELL HE MUST BE A WANNABE OR A DROPUT CAUSE SOME MV's ARE BEING TAXED,SO HOW COME THIS GUY IS SO HARD UP!PLUS HE'S IN HERE CONSTANTLY,IF HE DON'T LIKE IT HE SHOULD LOG ON TO SOMETHING ELSE,OR HE SHOULD GO OUTSIDE AND SMELL THE SOUTH!!
THEIR ALL OVER THE FREAKIN PLACE!AND HE SAID THAT THE SUR STROLLS THROUGH THE MALL!YUP EVEN THE SWAPMEET BUDDY,WHERE YOUR SUPPOSELY
TAX FREE ASS SHOPS! AT THE SWAPMEET!DAM BUDDY I WONDER WHY?AND YOUR WHAT!!MUST BE DOING BAD!!
WELL GOTTA GO!! I'M HAVING SOME TOAST WITH MANTEQIULLA!!!LOL!

Anonymous said...

OF COURSE 25'S ARE FAGGETS LIKE I SAID THEY ARE PROUD OF BEING BIG IN PC WHAT CAN WE EXCEPT OF THESE LEVAS THEY ARE LOCK DOWN IN PC IN PRISON AND LOCK DOWN IN THEIR CANTON ON THE OUTS NO WONDER THEY DONT SEE THE MIGHTY SUR.

Anonymous said...

*crickets*

Anonymous said...

John Gotti Jr. gets mistrial..

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/09/20/gotti.jury.ap/index.html

Anonymous said...

Its an LA blog, who cares about John Gotti Jr. Besides , until he buries Sammy Gravano, it don't matter what he does.

Anonymous said...

Fuck you, leva surata. Puro Bulldog Nation and 25'ers! Puro Maravilla too while were at it. And props to XIV too. Is that enough LA blog for your non reading ghetto living tax paying dumb ass??
And why is it that Surenos don't know how to fight? You vatos weigh like 80lbs and throw blows like Helen Keller. Wilding swinging hoping you hit something. All you can do is shoot and you don't even do that right, killing people by accident all the time. What a joke.

Anonymous said...

the vato who posted that last blog must be one of those STUPID bulldogs that were caught on tape trying to impress but ended up catching cases, or that was one of his homies, cause it sounds like that punks never been out of his own town, were scared internet banger, sit down fool

Anonymous said...

Fuck All You Lame Ass Cell Soldiers... get a life!

Anonymous said...

Calmate ese Bulldog! It's time to go check the homeboys for jotos, tu sabes el "fingerwave!"

Anonymous said...

A SAN JOSE NEWSPAPER "METRO" JUST HAD AN ARTICLE ON BOTH EME AND NF DROPOUTS CO EXISTING TOGETHER IN THE SANTA CLARA COUNTY JAIL. BOTH SIDES OF SOLDADOS WERE QUESTIONING ALL THE POWER TRIPS IN THE JOINT AND SAYING CHALE I AINT KILLING MY HOMIE. A SALAS HOMIE HAD TO HIT HIS OWN CHILDHOOD FRIEND. FOR REFUSING TO DO SO HE ENDED UP IN A DITCH. THEN THE HOMIES IN SALAS WERE SHOOTING THEIR OWN FACTION OF THE NORTH FOR THAT HIT. YOU GOTTA UNDERSTAND THAT NF ARE NO LONGER NORTENOS, THEY ARE BUSINESSMEN. THEY WILL KILL ONE NORTENO LIKE IT'S NADA. EME DOES THE SAME. THEY ARE NOT IN NO CAUSE LIKE IT WAS BEFORE. A LONG TIME CARNAL WAS KILLED FOR REFUSING TO ROB A BANK.
MYKEO WAS TO ROB IT, & SEND FERIA TO THE C'S IN THE SHU. THE VATO WANTED HIS FREEDOM, IT COST HIM HIS LIFE. THEN THERE'S THE BROWN BOB MURDER. SEE ALL THIS MASA IS STARTING TO HIT ALOT OF VATOS BOTH NORTH AND SOUTH GANGSTEROS. ONCE THEY HIT THE SNY THEN YES THEY MIGHT HAVE THEIR OWN AGENDAS AND 25ERS BE KILLERS BY TRADE. BUT WHAT WILL YOU DO IF YOU ARE FORCED TO LIVE WITH A SURENO FROM DOWN SOUTH TRYING TO EVADE EME? BE HIS HOMIE OR WHAT? IF YOU GOT A NF DROP OUT RANKING OUT BECAUSE HE HIT A FELLOW NORTENO CUZ IT WAS ORDERED BY SOME OLD VATOIN THE SHU? THEN SOME CARNAL ROLLS OVER ON ARMANDO TIZOK FRIAS, SNITCHING AND THEN ARMANDO FRIAS SPEAKS OUT AGAINST THE NF.
BOTH ARE PC CASES NOW. THEY MUST BE WALKING THE YARDA WITH THE GREENLIGHTERS TAMBIEN.

Anonymous said...

I've seen some straight solid vatos getting killed by the hands of some fuckin coward shot caller. For what? Because the shot caller thought he "heard" something about the soldado being informant? Or for not following orders? What a joke ese.

Anonymous said...

WHAT I THINK IS A JOKE IS HOW NF KILLS MORE HOMIES THAN KEEPING THE SURENOS IN CHECK OUT IN SAN FRAN OR THE BAY AREA. THEY ARE TOO BUSY KILLING THEIR OWN THEY LET THE SURENOS ROAM AROUND.

Anonymous said...

Pinche crickets, hijo de su madre that shit's funny and true.
Chect out big-boys.com it shows a vato loco getting laid out by another homie sin chanclas and listen to the gavachos talking shit. Some funny shit.

Anonymous said...

Cap's Saloon is a bar and card room in downtown Salinas, California. On a warm evening in May, 2001, Armando Frias Jr. was here playing pool. Frias was 19 and an aspiring member of a gang that controlled drug sales in the area. At Cap's he spotted a man who was in trouble with the gang for selling drugs without sharing his profits. Frias called his street bosses on his cell phone. They met him in the parking lot. They gave him a gun, and he went back inside.

"When I walked in there," says Frias, "I went to the jukebox, came up behind him, and shot him. I thought I hit him in the back of the head and I found out I hit him in the back of the neck."

The victim died at the scene. Armando Frias Jr. was arrested and imprisoned. But the leaders of the group behind the killing were already in prison. Frias was acting on behalf of a powerful Latino prison gang. The group is called "Our Family" - in Spanish, Nuestra Familia, or NF.

"All over Northern California," Frias explains, "you've got these regiments that are being run by the NF, and all these regular street gang members out there selling drugs, they're paying a certain percentage to the NF. They call it paying rent or taxes. That's just the way the NF runs, that's the way they run the streets."

The NF isn't a street gang that's gone to prison. It's a prison gang that's hit the streets. The NF and other prison gangs have flourished in a place designed to shut them down.

At Pelican Bay State Prison, behind a maze of concrete walls, high voltage security fences and steel doors, lies a prison within a prison. It's commonly known as a supermax. The state of California calls this place the Security Housing Unit or SHU.

Most of the inmates here are gang members. Their cells are windowless and nearly bare. The men are locked here 22 and a half hours a day, usually alone. Inmates are held in virtual isolation to try to keep them from working together, but even the SHU can't stop some leaders from running their gangs.

"The head leaders of the Nuestra Familia, the Mexican Mafia, the Aryan Brotherhood, you name the prison gang, they're in prison," says Joseph McGrath, who was warden at Pelican Bay until 2004. "And they control the activities of the gang both within the prison system and in our communities in California and now unfortunately, have even spread to other states."

Prison gangs that started in California are now in more than 20 states. Recent surveys report more than 300,000 gang members in America's jails and prisons. For convicts like Epitacia Cortina, the prison gang offered a strange kind of career: as teacher, fighter, arch criminal.

"I lived, I breathed, I ate, I slept, I thought the gang," says Cortina.

He is a heavy-set 31 year old Latino serving 15 years to life for murder. His body is covered with NF tattoos, a black eagle with arched wings on his wrist, the number 14 etched just above his left eye. Cortina spent eight years in the Pelican Bay SHU as a loyal captain in the Nuestra Familia.

"When I became a member of the NF," says Cortina, "I was put in charge of a regiment out on the streets, meaning I was to help oversee that regiment making sure that the members we had out there were generating revenue for the organization in prison."

Cortina says he trained other inmates prior to their parole. Once out of prison, these men ran the gang's criminal network, including street gangs.

"We'd educate them on vocabulary, how to speak properly, how to dress properly, blend in with society so that way you can do your criminal activity on the under. We also educated them on how to do bank robberies, how to do armored car robberies, how to do home invasions."

Cortina says the parolees faced brutal retaliation if they didn't follow the gang's orders. Cortina himself is now in danger because he recently left the gang.

NF generals at in the Pelican Bay SHU controlled dozens of street regiments like Cortina's. Twenty-five percent of profits, mainly from drug dealing, was deposited in NF bank accounts. To do all this, the gang used ingenious methods.

"We've got several examples of what we call micro-writing," says officer David Barneburg, as he shows off a pile of recently intercepted messages.

The NF passes messages in legal mail and in scraps of paper filled with tiny, almost microscopic script.

"This is what we refer to as a BNL, a bad news list," says Barneburg. "This one I've got is actually 14 pages long and contains about 1500 names of northern Hispanics, their CDC number, any marks or tattoos they have that can identify them by. Whenever somebody arrives to a yard, this list will be referenced. If they're name is on the list, they'll be targeted for assault. And this is only a partial list."

That list was recovered from a northern Hispanic in the B facility of the prison. It was recovered by the staff and had been secreted in the inmate's rectum.

Gang members don't just hide messages in body cavities. They also write them in exotic languages. This method is so pervasive, Pelican Bay actually banned anything written in Swahili, Celtic Runic and Nahuatl. That's the language of the Aztecs used by the Nuestra Familia.

"Every time we tighten the screws so to speak, they're going to find a way around it," says Lt. Robert Marquez, Pelican Bay's chief gang investigator. He says even though guards read inmates' mail and monitor their phone calls, gang leaders still get their orders out onto the streets. "If they know a certain gang member's paroling they'll give him all kinds of messages, phone numbers, contacts, hit lists. So the guy leaves here with a cache of information [of] people who are supposed to be murdered, people who are supposed to be extorted."

Out of prison flows crime. No place has been hit harder than Salinas, the farming town in central California that once inspired John Steinbeck.


Three men in their late teens, members of a street gang tied to the Nuestra Familia. - photo by Janjaap Dekker, courtesy Center for Investigative Reporting

In an east Salinas neighborhood with rows of tidy houses, three men in their late teens stand in an open garage. They are members of a street gangs with close links to the Nuestra Familia. One man, who calls himself Juan, is sealing a drug deal on his cell phone.

The men wear short hair, red baseball caps, and football jerseys. With pride, they show off torsos etched with gang tattoos and scars from bullet wounds.

"I believe in being a homeboy," says Juan. "I just believe I will die for my cause, for my struggle."

Juan says the struggle is about defending northern California Latinos, called "nortenos," from the enemy, Latinos with roots in southern California, known as "surrenos." But it's really a struggle for drug turf that began behind bars with two long-feuding prison gangs: the NF, which spawned the nortenos, and the Mexican Mafia, an even bigger prison gang that rallies the surrenos.

The proxy war between northern and southern California Latinos has claimed hundreds of lives. It burns in places like Salinas where poverty and unemployment are severe.

Now, some people are getting fed up with the violence. Demonstrators in Salinas recently gathered to mourn the city's 250th gang related killing since the early 1990s. They beat drums, chanted and watch Aztec-style dancing.

Not all the victims are gang members. Elsa Sandoval came here to remember her 27-year-old son Joey. He was killed two years ago in what appeared to be a random shooting. His murder, like many in Salinas, remains unsolved.

"We won't stop," says Sandoval, "until we find these son-of-a-bitches that killed our sons. We'll find them."

NF old timers say this kind of street violence is not what the group was founded for. Like many prison gangs, the NF started as a prisoner defense group in the late 1960s. The NF established a constitution and an educational curriculum. But the NF moved into the drug trade and grew more violent.

The NF expanded in youth jails and on the streets. Leaders imposed military-style discipline and a lifetime commitment often sealed in the killing of a rival.

By the late 1990s, law enforcement started to see the true scale of the NF. George Collord, a police detective in Santa Rosa, was investigating unsolved gang murders when an informant linked the crimes to Pelican Bay. His investigation later triggered a major FBI task force. Collord was stunned to discover a sophisticated gang network throughout northern California - all controlled by NF leaders in Pelican Bay's Security Housing Unit.

"Generally people in this country think that when people go to prison, that they're losers," says Collord. "These guys were not losers."


Nuestra Familia CD

Collord started calling the NF leaders, "puppet masters." He discovered the gang even produced low-budget films and rap CDs with chilling lyrics. One such song, "Target Practice," has a chorus of females repeating "Pinta bound, pinta bound," which means headed for prison. This song's message is that prison is inevitable - even desirable.

Collord says the CDs flew off the shelves and triggered more violence.

"There's always been gangster rap around," says Collord, "but this was a little more direct in its approach. It had a selected audience which were the young northern Hispanics that the NF really wanted to recruit and tell them that, 'You're not alone. You've got a huge army, a huge movement that is with you.'"

That message inspired young street gang members like Willie Stokes. That's why he arrived to Pelican Bay filled with the anticipation of a college freshman.

"When I first went to Pelican Bay," says Stokes, "you're like so fascinated by, 'Oh here's all these guys you've always heard about, all these guys who run everything.' You're just fascinated with it all. And you hear the way they talk, Aztec language, just all this knowledge and philosophy from reading all this stuff. You just, you know, 'Oh I want to be like that, I want to be smart and educated like he sounds.'"

"I've sat in rooms with young kids, who say they can't wait to go to prison," says George Collord. "Because their uncles have gone, their cousins have gone, the people they respect most in this world have gone to prison. And you scratch your head, and you go, 'Wait a second, you want to give up your freedom out here?' I've even said, 'You want to give up girls for a while? Come on, you're a teenager!' 'Yes,' the answer's 'yes.'"

But before a young gang member gets to prison, he's expected to put in work on the streets. That might mean assaulting a rival, or murder. And that brings the story back to Armando Frias Jr..

On that warm May evening at Cap's Saloon, Frias was fresh out of juvenile lockup where he'd enlisted with a group run by the NF. Frias says some members had doubts about his loyalty because of relatives who'd dropped out of the gang.

"So I used to go out of my way to show that there was no reason for them to have doubts about me," says Frias. "And I don't like nobody to question me. And the way I did was by showing them through my actions."

At Cap's Saloon, a video surveillance camera recorded Frias proving his loyalty by shooting a man named Raymond Sanchez. Frias is now serving 25 years to life for the murder.

Frias was one of dozens of people prosecuted as part of the FBI-led crackdown on the Nuestra Familia. They include five NF leaders indicted while serving life terms at Pelican Bay Prison. Detective George Collord says the operation was a success and that the NF's leadership is disrupted, for now.

"But the years and years of training and the philosophies that have gone down," says Collord, "from the thousands that are below them, leaders will emerge. As long as you've got the recruitment pool out there, you're going to survive and new leaders will emerge."

There is an epilogue to this story. The five Nuestra Familia leaders prosecuted in federal court are apparently still in business. Intercepted communications revealed the NF leaders were issuing orders, even as they awaited probable life sentence from a federal judge. The men will serve their time far away from California, but now investigators believe the NF is plotting to expand to federal prison.

Anonymous said...

*tumbleweeds*

Anonymous said...

RIFFRAFF

RetiredJoker said...

The incident at Cap's Saloon in salas was when the rata Bob "Huerito" Gratton was the regiment leader. He had actually already turned states evidence when that hit took place. The guy that was hit was a fellow norteno but he was dealing chiba in a NF run area of chinatown in Salinas and did kick up the proper amount to do business.
I think Eme and NF soldados in the Pinta may eventually get fed up and start going PNY but will that trickle down to the streets? I doubt it. The surenos in the bay area don't get influenced much by La Eme so that war will most probably continue on. Remember you South Siders on this blog, the surenos on the streets in the bay area are closer to being Paisas than they are to benig card carrying surenos. Most of them join these "Sur" gangs because they get tired of being picked on for being a Wetback. Matter of fact they ( the Paisa Sureno) have given SUR an acronym. They call Sur (Southern United Raza) I don't think I ever heard that term being used in So Cal.
So to sum it up, the beef in the pinta between north and south may subside due to internal killings and carnals getting tired of putting in work on their own, but the streets will still have the war raging on and with that, new soldados to take their place.

Anonymous said...

JOKER HOW MANY FINGERS HAVE BEEN IN YOUR ASS JUST CURIOUS?

TijuanaJailer said...

[But it's really a struggle for drug turf that began behind bars with two long-feuding prison gangs]

Another Blogger has so aptly put it: It's all about DRUGS! This is indeed the fuel that propels the Machine. Look around you and tell me how many people you personally know that died of a drug-related overdose. I bet many of us know several or know people whose family members died of the same.

[...and the Mexican Mafia, an even bigger prison gang that rallies the surrenos]

The EME is probably NOT as big as you may think (numerically, that is). Their "made" members are in the hundreds rather than thousands because their recruitment criteria has always been an insistence on "quality versus quantity".

The EME's influence is so extensive today that the appearance given is that of this monstrous (again, numerically speaking) organization. They simply have many Chicano gangsters willing to do their bidding. As KMA said: they all "want to be like Mike".

Like the New York Yankees of baseball, the EME may lose during a season but in the long run they are the standard from which all prison gangs look to pattern themselves after.

They influence too many street gangs in L.A., So Cal and throughout the west to be threatened by any fly-by-night groups.

PNY residents will remain in the joint (like the residents of the White Elephant - SEE Below) with their status diminished in the eyes of hardcore surenos and notenos who fancy themselves to be "walking that gangster walk"! Seriously, how can a Protective Custody inmate be seriously considered more than a disgruntled renegade (at best) from the mainline population.

Those on the outside are even less inclined to buy into these so-called "sensitive yards" (sensitive; it even sounds feminine) because they are "flying high" on their own supply. With plenty of drugs at their disposal to influence their deluded minds, and the promise of EME or NF heaven in the horizon, these sheep are indeed being led to the proverbial slaughter!

Retired Joker said: [I think Eme and NF soldados in the Pinta may eventually get fed up and start going PNY]

These events in the prison gang community seem to go in cycles. There are periods when you have an unusual number of defectors in which the mandate is to "close the books" (no more recruiting until they "clean up their back yard").

Member dropouts should be distingished from sureno non-member dropouts. Surenos are ALWAYS expendable by EME whereas carnales are not.

There are also periods when the heat is increased (this is usually when solid leaders are not able to communicate to underlings properly) and events proceed in a "helter-skelter" manner, much like you see today.

There was a similar period about 20 years ago and the White Elephant in Chino was utilized to house PC norteno's and sureno's. Tracy, San Quentin, Soledad, Chino and Tehachapi had similar but smaller units where these "13" and "14" dudes co-existed. It was a "respite from the battlefield" for these guys!

PC inmates who take advantage of their current "salvation" should use their brains and reenter society to become productive.

Unfortunately, many will proceed with the same lifestyle, pretending to be gangsters (pretenders can be just as dangerous because they're looking to prove something) and they will be killed in their 'hoods or in county jail.

It takes more courage to PC than to remain in the mix. Once you've exercised that courage, don't blow it by returning to that lifestyle. It's like stepping into quicksand - only one way to go! Make it a FINAL transformation
and enjoy the REAL world.

Peace .........

Tijuana Jailer

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
JOKER HOW MANY FINGERS HAVE BEEN IN YOUR ASS JUST CURIOUS?

9:47 AM

I'll take this one, Joker. Joker has shared much insight on this board, my homosexual friend. If you try taking your head out of your ass maybe there would be room for someone's fingers.

Just Curious #2

Anonymous said...

The homie Joker speaks with respect as do others on here, yet you and others have the maturity of retarded 5 yr old. What makes you think your better then us northerners? Does it make u feel like a solid soldado writing shit on a blog, if so I feel sorry for you.

Anonymous said...

AJUUA !!!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

((What makes you think your better then us northerners?))

Look, carnalito, take that north and south crap out of your mouth. You sound like a "victimized nigger" when you say that. You are a Chicano Brother and we know NO BOUNDARIES, carnal.

Nobody is better than another brown brother, period. Don't get caught up in this "game".

East L.A. Boy

Anonymous said...

[Anonymous said...
On September 16, 2005, a book by Ramon "Mundo" Mendoza entitled: Mexican Mafia: From Altar Boy to Hit Man was released in CD form at a law enforcement seminar.

Although it isn't posted on a law enforcement training web site to date, go to: http://convictsandcops.com/book.htm

Many LE guys from various agencies already picked up several copies of this CD so it's out there.]

WHEN WILL THIS BOOK BE POSTED ON THE WEB SITE?

Anonymous said...

WHEN WILL THIS BOOK BE POSTED ON THE WEB SITE?

It seems that the first wave of releases will be to the Law Enforcement community at venues throughout the country. My partner already picked up a few copies.

RetiredJoker said...

Orale, Just Curious. Nice come back.
I agree with TJ about this happening in cycles but the main differnce now is Eme and NF are no longer the only sharks in the tank. Other prison gangs are growing and getting a stronger grip in their state or region and different levels of street gangs is expanding. The growing influence of central american gangs coming up through mexico with no ties to La Eme are making a presence throughout the south and east coast. They may carry the 13 in some cases but owe no allegiance to Sur. If La Eme could ever reach an agreement with them however, the Eme web could spread accross the country easily. I don't see that happening however since they already have their leadership entrenched and LE has see their ability to coordinate thier different clicks accross the US. MS13 is getting quite the nasty name with LE accross the country. I guess it seems that everybody wants to be a gangster again. If you don't care if you go to prison, there is something definitely wrong with your menta.

Anonymous said...

I think some people from the general public have already ordered from this web site ....

http://convictsandcops.com/book.htm

From my understanding, it's a thirty-chapter book with photos of eme going back to the original members in prison (illegally taken photos) and on the outside (baptisms, funerals, etc.).

I'm waiting for my own copy and I'm not in law enforcement!!

Anonymous said...

On September 16, 2005, a book by Ramon "Mundo" Mendoza entitled: Mexican Mafia: From Altar Boy to Hit Man was released in CD

Hey Wally, how do I get a copy of this?

TijuanaJailer said...

[On September 16, 2005, a book by Ramon "Mundo" Mendoza entitled: Mexican Mafia: From Altar Boy to Hit Man was released in CD

Hey Wally, how do I get a copy of this?]

I think I can answer this one for Wally, Mr. Anonymous. Mundo's book was released on September 16, 2005, at a law enforcement seminar.

The initial group of orders are to law enforcement groups throughout the U.S. who had already placed pre-orders.

The general public order form will be posted within the next week at:

http://www.convictsandcops.com/

Any and all inquiries can be forwarded to Sgt. Whitley at:

sarge4444@earthlink.net

Peace ..........

Tijuana Jailer

Anonymous said...

"Most of them join these "Sur" gangs because they get tired of being picked on for being a Wetback. Matter of fact they ( the Paisa Sureno) have given SUR an acronym. They call Sur (Southern United Raza) I don't think I ever heard that term being used in So Cal."

That term has been around a long time. I first heard it from a gava banging riverside sureno back in 89.

Anonymous said...

Joker what pintas have you been in? Or have you? You seem to talk out of both sides of your mouth on one hand i have heard you talk about politics and the raza and bla bla bla.But on other subjects i have herd you talk straight shit on Surenos!So will the real Joker please stand up.Is it Joker 14 or Joker the joke!!

Anonymous said...

I once posted how things worked in YA so far as gangs. Now we didn't have NF or EME but that didn't matter because your own would still fuck you up if they could.
I said if there were nortenos and surenos, we would fued, if no surenos , we'd bang against each other. same thing happens in sureno controlled ya institutions.



The vato who had a finger in his ass ( I know you putos loving hearing this story) would have gotten off on anyone, shit he bashed a gang of surenos for us ( not paisas, vatos from east los) but was still considered no good because another vato from Fresno played a fucked up mind game on him.

You don't need the EME to treat surenos like bitches and pe ce's , surenos do enough of that to each other. You dont need NF to treat nortenos like bitches, they do it to each other as well. We can blame the eme and nf for alot of bullshit but chicans have been abusing one another without the prison gangs to guide us for a long time.

Next time you vatos want to talk shit and disrespect each other by referencing the vato from Fresno who had a finger up his ass, remember this: one on one, he would have fucked you up too and, regardless of what went in his culo, he banged on alot of fools in YA while ya'll do it on the internet. He's probably got way more heart than you!

Anonymous said...

Wow but a finger up his ass wow!!!

Anonymous said...

To the lame that was askin Joker questions, what yard and pen you been too? Where u from and why you think your shit don't stink, cause I can sense the hate in your typing. Yall need to quit actin like your on the front line and glorifyin this bullshit.

Anonymous said...

"Wow but a finger up his ass wow"

i felt the same way when i heard that shit! you would have tripped even more to see him hubbed and tatted down with bulldog tats. Like I said, he'd run up on anyone to try and get in good with the homies.

RetiredJoker said...

I have never once talked shit about Surenos on this site. I'm too old to net bang. I just call it like I see it. In past posts, I clearly indicated I grew up around San Jose for 20 years and then moved to so cal for the last 5 years and have a unique perspective of seeing things on both sides now. I grew up around SOS (Sons Of Samoa, Crips, Bloods, Nortenos , Vietnamese and Filipino gangs.
I also stated I have never done hard time, a stint in Santa Clara County Juvie Hall and the drunk tank a few times. I was a terrible teenage but grew up quick after I was shot 4 times when I was 22 and slowly drifted away from the lifestyle but still had ties to the homies and I still knew what time it was. Before that I was shot at 3 other times. I'm 6'3" 220lbs. Not alot of vatos want to throw down with me, so I guess shooting was a better way. Was I a norteno, yes. Do I claim now? No, I claim me and my family.
Who I would gladly kill for and/or be killed for if circumstances were that dire. I will not die for a color or some other vatos chiba problem.
Have I ever walked the yard or any tier, no. But I've seen to many of my homeboys get sent up and realize thats not for me. I'm 34 now have a good job, a beautiful ruca who's making me Spaghetti tonight and it just doesn't get better than that,brother.

Anonymous said...

NO,no you said all the Bulldogs put a finger in his fundio. Go back and check your story. It seems true to after seeing the Bulldog video (Hardcore de veras!). In my varrio even anyone who put thier finger up another dudes asshole would get a leva. But maybe it's different up north ese. ANd don't worry about that bad vato cause I seen him on the enternet under transgender bulldogs.

Anonymous said...

^^^ *Liar*

Anonymous said...

[one on one, he would have fucked you up too and, regardless of what went in his culo,]

So we defend someone who took it in the butt because a)you take it in the butt too and as an aggresive homo, you back their flag; b)he would've made a great fighter except ..... ! c)other personal reasons.

A bitch is a bitch. If a 'ho beats up my homies, then that just means she's a tough 'ho. If a homosexual who takes it in the butt can thump, that don't make him a bad fella. In fact, that don't make him a fella at all !!

I might want to run and hide too if this bad boy came around me. Would make me wonder if he wanted to hijack my chorizo! Home Boy is selective as to who he "conducts his business" with.

Anonymous said...

He wasn't homosexual, he was a pendejo. He didn't let the vato stick a finger in his ass cause he liked it. He really thought thats what happens in jail and the point of the whole story was how people from your own cities and sometimes hoods take advantage of the fact your not criminally sophistaced, not just the EME and NF. He was a good fighter no doubt as evidenced by all the surenos he knocked out, but he was still deemed no good as I've always stated. We never ate after him, we didn't even kick it with him, but every time a new sureno rolled up, we'd tell him he can get off the leva by smashing the sureno. He banged a gang of you vatos but never had the leva lifted which just proves how pendejo he was. You'd think he would have learned we weren't going to let him in after the tenth sureno he KNOCKED THE FUCK OUT!

Anonymous said...

Oh yeah, Im not Retired Joker and I posted about the Fresno vato and the finger. So before you go accusing someone of something, know what the f$%^&k your talking about instead of talking out your ass.

Anonymous said...

[You'd think he would have learned we weren't going to let him in after the tenth sureno he KNOCKED THE FUCK OUT!]

So the moral of the story is: This pendejo who let someone poke a finger in his ass is one tough motor scooter who beat up Sureno's upon request.

Finish the story. I want to hear how the rest of you must be King Kong compared to Mr. Pendejo who takes it in the ass.

You are attempting to elevate yourselves at Pendejo's expense.

Anonymous said...

"Finish the story. I want to hear how the rest of you must be King Kong compared to Mr. Pendejo who takes it in the ass.

You are attempting to elevate yourselves at Pendejo's expense."

Everyone here who makes fun of others by using this vato as an example of northerneres is trying elevate themselves at his expense. We weren't king kong either, he just wouldn't go against the 14 which is why he let a vato stick a ginger in his ass. It was beyond his comprehension that 14 ers would do him wrong when all he wanted to do was put in work. He probably could have smashed most of us northerners just like he did the surenos that rolled through. I always felt bad for the vato giving his all to something that would do him like it did. I have similiar stories of sureno shotcallers rolling up from YTS only to be stabbed in the ass and PC'ed because the shotcaller for the SUR at Preston felt he was a threat to his power. It would be lost on you though as you can't seem to comprehend much.

Anonymous said...

Why don't you just let it go homie, this bickerin is gettin old.

Anonymous said...

Ese Joker, thanks for your life story homes,pero sabes que, you ever hear the old saying "I asked him what time it is and he tells me how to build a watch. "pinches mayatero's del norte"

StillNoScript said...

RetiredJoker, regardless of what some think; Most of us ARE interested in your life story. Hope to hear lots more from you.

Look's like Wally's finally back with a new post. I'm off to check it out.

Anonymous said...

[Ese Joker, thanks for your life story homes,pero sabes que, you ever hear the old saying "I asked him what time it is and he tells me how to build a watch.]

Yo Joker, I am also interested in your life's story. I'll take the watch AND the case that goes with it too!

Preach on, carnal !

Anonymous said...

joker is big fucking lop who doesnt know shit probbably has a cousin or family who gang bangs.But never got his hands dirty.BUT ALL YOU IDDIOTS BELIVE HIM!

RetiredJoker said...

This blog isn't about me. Its about sharing thoughts and opinions on our particular lifestyle and culture and its history but thanks anyway, Carnal.
Some can articulate and respectfully disagree and some are, well, just plain ingnorant.
But its all good in the neighborhood, right holmes?
"Only the lord knows what I've done, and he's the only one I seek forgiveness from."

Anonymous said...

Ese Joker, thanks for your life story homes,pero sabes que, you ever hear the old saying "I asked him what time it is and he tells me how to build a watch. "pinches mayatero's del norte"

Sabes que menso, I can't change the fact you have your comp-rehension skills are nill and trying to is a lesson in futility. Its you who lacks the ability to determine what the writer is conveying. Once you read the words "finger and culo" your mente regresses to a little kid and the moral of the story is lost on you. To all the adults here, the best we can do with this negative individual is ignore him. I propose we ignore all the negative comments. He's already stated his family don't give a fuck about him so why should we.

Anonymous said...

I love reading both all three sides of the story...the norteño, the sureño, and the cops side.

Keep up the good jale.

kid mex

Anonymous said...

^^^ooops on using the word "both".

kid mex

Anonymous said...

On the real a finger up his culo throws everything else out the fucken window!!!

Anonymous said...

You must be speaking from experience.

Anonymous said...

Rules on a finger in the Culo...
1 finger you're ok, 2 fingers you're gay.

Anonymous said...

"On the real a finger up his culo throws everything else out the fucken window!!!"

It did so far as him ever being able to kick it (be in the car). Thats why I thought it was sad, he was never going to be considered good in the eyes of the homies no matter how much work he put in.
His good standing was out the window but that don't mean his willingness to do dirt would go untapped (no pun intended). Why waste our manpower when we had this vato willing to put himself on the line for us. The fact he let someone do to him what they did only made him that much more expendable to us. He wasn't one of us but his actions served our needs and we took advantage of his willingness to commit violence. I think what happened to him solidified my distaste for the chicano gang culture as it stands because here we had a vato willing to commit himself to our cause and we abused him for being weak minded. Its alot easier to teach someone the reglas than to have him grow some heuvos. The vato who did that to him fucked off a potential torpedo with great potential for personal reasons. He wasn't thinking about the cause, just that he disliked this vato from the calles. Why worry about surenos when we had our own vatos trying to break each other instead of uplifting one another into better soldiers.

Anonymous said...

Whoever came up with the idea to fuck over the homie should of been disciplined himself.

Anonymous said...

Whoever came up with the idea to fuck over the homie should of been disciplined himself.

I agree wholeheartedly but he'd been in for along time and had some clout while the other vato was new so you know how that goes. that PC and politics posting was all about shit like this only on a higher level.

Anonymous said...

UR GETTIN WEAK CARNAL SO U SAY?

"CHALE WE NEED TO TAKE A LOOK AROUND AND SEE WHOS USING WHO, SO SCREW THE AB AND THEM SKINHEADS, ID RATHER BE CALLED A PAISA THAN A SURENO TRADER TO MY OWN RAZA....PURO RAZA UNIDA, CHICANO LIBERATION FRONT 1975-2005?"

SURENO TRAITOR? HAVE U LOOK IN A MIRROR RECENT HOLMES? REMEMBER WHAT YOU SAY VATO. IT CAN HAUNT YOU S.A.

Anonymous said...

S.A. ~STURMABTEILUNG~

Anonymous said...

WHOEVER TYPED THOSE REMARKES ABOUT WHAT I STATED AND ABOUT THE CHICANO LIBERATION FRONT IS TOTALLY WRONG, IT WAS NOT MADE UP BY THE GOVERNMENT IT WAS REAL AND IT WAS US BACK AROUND THE EARLY 70S WE HAD A BUILDING AND OFFICE AND WE WERE LED BY RAUL RUIZ A GREAT CHICANO WHO IS NOW A PROFFESOR DOING CHICANO STUDIES AT C.S.U.N IN THE VALLEY, WE WERE INVOLVED IN THE RIOTS AFTER THET HUDAS KILLED RUBEN SALAZAR ON WHITTIER BLVD WE ALSO WENT OVER TO EAST LA SHERRIFS AND ALMOST TOOK OVER THAT PLACE, WE WERE BASED AT THE CORNER OF CITY TERRACE DRIVE AND MARENGO NEAR A GAS STATION UNTIL THE PLACE WAS MYSTERIOUSLY BURNED DOWN, SO DONT PLAY ME DOWN HOMIE , I WAS THERE AND KNOW THE FACTS, I ALSO KNOW ANOTHER FACT, THAT IN ORDER FOR YOU TO SURVIVE. YOU HAVE TO PAY TAXES TO ALOT OF TECATOS NOT ALL BUT ALOT AT LEAST 75%, AND YES I HAVE BEEN THERE SO THATS HOW I KNOW THEY ARE TECATOS, I CAN HONESTLY SAY I KNOW OF ALOT OF SURENOS WHO HAVE BEEN PUNKED ALSO SO HERE GOES, SPANKY FROM SANGRA SSG HAD HIS FRONT TOOTH KICKED OUT HIS MOUTH AND PUT ON HIS KNEES BY SMILEY FROM MARAVILLA AT WAYSIDE, VATOS FROM PICO VIEJO GOT LOKO FROM HORSESHOE AND MADE HIM BLOW ON THE SAME YARD, ALSO ON THE SAME YARD GATO AND CHITO FROM CLOVER ES PUNKED JOKER FROM HAZARD, THERE IS MUCH MORE BUT I WONT GO ON , SO DONT JUMP ON THOSE NORTENOS WHEN YOU GOT THE SAME SHIT GOING ON IN YOUR OWN BACKYARD, AT LEAST THEY ARENT BEING HELD HOSTAGE LIKE YOU ARE BY THE EME, SO TRUCHA CAUSE YOUR JEFITA MIGHT DISSRESPECT A CARNAL AND YOU MIGHT BE ORDERED TO PUT THE IRON IN HER DIET.

Anonymous said...

FUCK THE EME!THEY ARE ALL A BUNCH OF OF PUSSIE'S.. MARAVILLOSO...

Don Quixote said...

Hey Anonymous or Conex or whoever you are, I say it again, the so called "Chicano Liberation Front" was a phony manufactured, gov't (probably FBI) financed, non existent, ploy to incite knuckleheads to stupid acts of violence, (they were even photographed spray painting placasos on walls in LA). The old "Divide and Conquer) bs that also had "Ron Karenga" and "US" black nationalist's to combat the growing threat of the "Black Panthers" back then. ANd "Raul Ruiz was not with the so called CLF he was with "La Raza Unida" and he also was suspect as agent of some gov't chasco with all his separatist "Aztlan back to Mexico" bs. ANd in fact you fall into the same category with all your entremitido,caca. You seem just like the old CLF people trying to create situations between the jente.
Afuera Judas!

Anonymous said...

IM ZAHLOSSEN ZUM SCHLACTEN HABEN FUR MIT EINLEGEN AUF KAMERADEN? WATCH OUT.

THE EYES HAVE MANY CARNAL.

Anonymous said...

STOP LYING!! IF YOU SAY SPANKY THIS,CLOVER THAT,AND THEN HAVE THE INFORMATION HIGHWAY BALLS TO SAY,YOUR NOT GOING TO GET INTO SOMETHIN ELSE!!!THAT'S BULL!!!PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS GONNA MAKE SHIT UP,LIKE THOSE SOCALL TAX-FREE AND MARAVILLOSOS!!!ALL YOU COULD DO IS TRY TO INFLUENCE YOUR CRAP TO OTHER PEOPLE,CAUSE YOUR FIGHTING A LOSING BATTLE!!!!YOU NEVER SEE ANY SURENO OR PERSON FROM THAT SIDE,TRY SO HARD TO PLEA THEIR CASE,ESPECIALLY ON THE NET!!!!
WISE UP BRO!!!WALK THE WALK AND DON'T CHEERLEAD!!YOU SOUND LIKE YOUR CRYING!,LIKE IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO PROVE!!THROWING IN NAMES IN YOUR FAIRYTALES!!BESIDES BRO,I BET 5YRS.FROM NOW,YOU'LL BE SITTING AROUND ON A PORCH WHISTLING DIXIE!!TALKING ABOUT HOW BAD YOU WERE,AND EVEN THEN YOUR YOUNGER HOMIES WON'T GIVE A SHIT!
SHIT BY THAT TIME THEY'LL ALL BE SURENOS AGAIN,I'M NOT ONE TO PICK
SIDES,BUT THE TRUTH IS THE TRUTH!!
SO C'MON HOMIE!!!STOP CHEERLEADING,
JUST CHILL AND DO WHAT YOU GOT TO DO!BUT MAKE SURE TO RAISE YOUR HAND!!!!!

Anonymous said...

NO SE PREOCUPE CARNAL. SURENO HERMANOS EN COMBINACION CON EL ARYAN BROTHERHOOD VAN A HAYAR PAZ Y SOLEDAD EN LOS BRAZOS DE VERDADEROS CAMARADAS. CONOZCALO.

Anonymous said...

No differentiation is made here. Our orders are clear. The order of the day calls the shots. Greenlight knows no other. Capiche?

Anonymous said...

CAPICHE?.....DUDE EAT YOUR FUKN SPAGHETTY!!

Anonymous said...

"No differentiation is made here. Our orders are clear."

Our orders are clear. Your nalgas are clear.

Anonymous said...

I'm white, 20 years old, from the Reseda area and I'm posting here because I'm interested in joining one of the better Mexican gangs in the area. I'm not really ghetto or anything like that, but I know all the lingo and stuff. Once I show heart and get jumped in, I'm not going to do any 187s or anything like that but I will spray paint walls wih you and even I'll even get down and smoke some reefers every now and then. Oh yeah, I go to school during the week so this is going to have to be a "weekend gangster" type thing; at least until I graduate. And jail is out of the question because I have allergies. So, future homies, I'm confident that I can make a contribnution to one fo your fine organizations, and O look forward to your replies.

Anonymous said...

At the end of the day, after all the drive by shootings, what has been gained? Is it all really about respect, like you guys are just slightly evolved past chickens and dogs? Why did evolution stop in Mexico? Without the Spaniards you would be living in huts made out of dried shit and eating bugs.

Anonymous said...

(I'm white, 20 years old, from the Reseda area.....)

You said enough right there. Congratulations, you now qualify to be a "home girl". You don't have to perform any 187's ... oral copulation will do.

As for your medical problem, don't worry, you'll land a sugar daddy upon arriving at LACJ and you will be well taken "care of" in the joint.

With the proliferation of white prison gangs (AB and NLR specifically), you will no longer be in need of a Mexican convict's protection as your own folks can "take you under their wing" (or under their blankets) and you won't know the difference.

If you "burn coal", you'll be sold at a decent price. So, my aspiring bitch, be happy and good luck in your criminal future.

El Chiludo
Translated: Mr. Big Stick

Anonymous said...

Dear Mr. El Chiludo (AKA: Mr. Big Stick)

First of all - I am gay, there I said it. Now let's move on. I must admit I thought I knew quite a bit about the gay lifestyle, but now I have learned something new and I am really excited. I don't know what you look like, but I think I really like you. You are young (Mmmmm) and butch (at least you talk rough) and you are, like me, a homosexual. Now, I don't have enough free time to actually go to prison because I have a really great job which I love, but perhaps the two of us could mock up a cell somewhere and do a little role playing? Then we could cuddle and watch some episodes of Prison Break that I have on my Tivo. Respond here and we can figure out a way to connect without alerting all you pals who might think you are straight. Anticipating your response. Chow!

Anonymous said...

fuck those coward PC's they can make a gang and we'll take em out! white power!

Anonymous said...

Que Desmadre .....

Anonymous said...

Mr.Diamante dise que onda you fake raza´s does any one know what raza means¨? raza means race I don´t understand why I see fucken whiteboys talking about they are raza just because they are from A varrio or even black fools talking about they are raza, that shit gets me pistoff raza means puro fucken mexicano not salvy or guatemala. Raza is A race which is the original mexican get that shit straightfake mexican puro 100% mexicano

Anonymous said...

what do you idiots think do you know your roots what does the 13 mean in sur 13 does any hardcore gangster know$

Anonymous said...

Hey Joker, I just came across this site and wanted to shout out to you. Your right on man and fuck those ignorant tools. I grew up in GILLAS(VARRIO 500) but moved across the country when my mother remarried at about the time I would have began earning my stripes. I still kick it with some of my old friends who are now methed out hollow soldiers. trying to act cool living the life.IT'S ALL ABOUT THE DRUGS CARNALES, WE ARE KILLING OUR OWN NORTH & SOUTH. Now, I don't claim or waste my time with petty color bullshit, i work in salas and live around the horseshoe area and I see this red on red fuckin' waste. Wake up brothers! Luckily I learned to be a real chicano from my tio's who although never left the east side, went to Berkely and UCLA in gratitude, duty and honor to our communities instead ! As an educator in salas I see this crazy shit everyday! Do something that's real for our jente, make our people stronger, smarter and united!

Anonymous said...

soldier under recognissision soldier under recruit

ScarFace said...

Sabes, Que and this goes out to all the Raza in Cali. I am Chicano in Iraq,nd so far just by reading all your MAMADAS, It seems to me that you all wana be chigones. Pero sabes que, thats what all these wHITE peoplr want, and Sabes que you are all feeding them want you want. Nobody reallt cares if you Die for a Pinche ST. oR IF YOU gRADUATED from la Pinche Pinta. Who Cares nobody but You ese. and esas. So wake up and smell the Pinche Air, and get a life and make something of yourself.

Anonymous said...

This is a shout to raza who read this. When I did my time in soledad, solano, and susanville, I was banging against you surenos, like when i had to spend 4 months in o-wing in chole after the whole north yard got off (i spent 40 months in CDC, and all I got to show for it is norteno in old english on my chest).
Anyways, I been out a long time now, and aint holding no grudges. After my best homeboy was set up in ESSJ after he paroled from the III yard at susanville, I had to rethink stuff too. I was always down for the norte, but I never took the commitment of S and became a bro, so I aint no dropout. But my whole point in dropping this kite now is to say that if someone like me can put all that shit behind me (been out clean now over 10 years) then maybe somebody who reads this might too. Peace.

Anonymous said...

homie is right anyone can be riding for the south one minute and pc'd up the next over next to nothing. not naming anyone but ive seen some vatos you'd never imagine to lock it up lock it up. its easy to talk shit about a peceta, but until your put in that position when your coming out to yarda knowing its coming, from an army of surenos and its just you, i dont give a damm how hard you are, your gonna lock it up. so a lil advice to all you youngsters, put your energy into something thats going to get you out of the barrio, alot of veteranos that been there done that can vouch on that. r.i.p rascal big hazard tonito el sereno

Anonymous said...

So like is this page only surenos man..........wheres da nortenos............what does pc mean and peceta too?

Anonymous said...

pc is an abbreviation for pinche chapete,which is a molester,rata,lame,dropout,or norteno.and that's that!LOL!LOL!LOL!yqg

Anonymous said...

ive been in the joint many times and All gangs are full of betrayal. Ive seen homeboys steal from each other, snitch, and even move on each other over envy and greed. If u do ur research most TOP RANKING EME, and NF members are INFORMANTS! more and more nortenos and surenos are beginning see whats going on behind the scenes so its no wonder homies wanna drop out.WISE UP

Anonymous said...

LOOK HERE ESA I'M WILL TELL YOU THIS MY DAD WAS ONE OF THOSE AB CRACKERS YOU SPEAK OF. AND I'LL TELL YOU RIGHT NOW HE WAS ALL ABOUT RESPECT, LOYALTY, MORALS, & ALL THAT SHIT. BUT BECAUSE HE WAS THAT WAY HE TOO WAS MURDERED BY HIS OWN KIND. SO IT'S NOT JUST THE MEXICANS GETTING USED. & DON'T EVEN THINK I'M BEING RACIST CAUSE I'VE GOT 4 KIDS HALF MEXICAN. BUT JUST KNOW NOT ALL THEM "CRACKERS" AS YOU PUT IT ARE BAD. I'M FUCKING WHITE LOCO PERO SABE ESTO I HAVE RESPECT. I MAY NOT HAVE JOINED ANY "HOOD" GROWING UP BUT I WILL TELL YOU I SEE SHIT FOR HOW IT IS & I'M LOYAL TO THOSE WHO ARE LOYAL TO ME & I WILL SPEAK MY MIND NO MATTER WHAT ANY PERSON HAS TO SAY. I FIGHT FOR WHAT I BELIVE IN & I BELIVE IN FACTS THE WAY SIT USED TO BE NOT HE SAID SHE SAID SHIT. THAT'S WHERE THE PROBLEM IS RIGHT NOW. NOT JUST WITH THE "CRACKERS" THERE'S SO MANY PEOPLE MAKING FAKE ASS PAPER WORK & OTHER SHIT IT AIN'T FUNNY. AND UNFORTUNITLY WITH THE BIGGER HOMIES IN THE SHU ALL THEY CAN RELY ON IS HE SAID SHE SAID SHIT. WHAT THEY NEED IS TO FIND A FEW REAL MOTHER FUCKERS TO FIND OUT THE FACTS FOR THE BIG HOMIES IN THE SHU BEFORE THE BIG HOMIES KEEP CALLING UNNECESSARY SHOTS BECAUSE SOME DUMB ASS GETS BUTT HURT OR A WILD HAIR UP THERE ASS & START SOME BULL SHIT. SO REMEMBER HOMIE IS EVERYONE NOT JUST THE"CRACKERS"... MY DAD DIED LOWK BECAUSE OF SOME MIXED UP SHIT AND MOTHER FUCKERS NOT FINDING OUT THERE FACTS.

Anonymous said...

I just paroled from the shu to let u know people know days just. P.C. Up cause there tired of the politics obviously u havent been around i dont condone that p.c. shit but shit happens just to let u know and anyone whos interést in this topic before 2006 if u p.c. Up u had to debrief that means snitch but after that lots of people just tapping out but if u got love for that individual check the paper work everything u do and say in prison is all documented that mean shows what u said to lock It up. And should have copies of them. If u know some one with the buisss ask them!!!