Thursday, December 08, 2005

TWO FRIENDS, TWO GANGS
I've been wanting to get to this for some time, but there wasn't enough information to get a clear picture. Recently, it got a little clearer. This incident illustrates one of the many weird dynamics of life in the hood.

On February 24, 2004, ALFRED "LIL TIGGER" SALINAS was shot and killed in front of his house. The man eventually prosecuted and convicted of the crime was FRANK "POPS" GUTTIEREZ. What makes this shooting noteworthy is that the shooter and the victim had been friends since childhood. Tragically, this isn't a unique incident.

According to court testimony, Lil Tigger was approaching his house on the night of the the 29th when he was ambushed by Pops Guttierez. Pops fired a few rounds at Lil Tigger from his car but missed. Lil Tigger ran towards his front door and Pops followed. Hearing the shots, Lil's mom came out of the house and actually got between Pops and her son. Pops continued blazing away and apparently shot and killed Lil Tigger while firing over Lil's mom's head.

With a powerful eyewitness like Lil's mom on the stand, it was pretty much a slam dunk for the prosecution. She had no trouble identifying Pops because the two kids grew up together and Pops was a regular visitor to the house. They played football together and by all accounts they were tight. But as happens often on the streets, they went separate ways. Pops went Highland Park and Lil followed his father's footsteps into Avenues and was putting in work for that neighborhood.

What Pops did was nothing less than a suicide run. It's unknown who lit the fire under Pops to take Lil out, or why, but it must have been a big fire. What a waste of two lives.

Lil Tigger's father is Tigger Salinas, a validated brother who was convicted of killing his girlfriend Sofia Gomez in 2002 after they got into a fight and she threw a beer in his face.

In another ironic twist, and something that foreshadowed his own murder, Lil Tigger got between Frankie "Stretch" Brajas and another homie in a fight at a barbecue about a year before Lil was killed. Showing a lot of heart, Lil took a bullet in the stomach protecting Stretch but wasn't able to keep Stretch from being pursued and shot in the back and killed.


110 comments:

Anonymous said...

No honor among thieves or liars cheats or hoodlums. Sad story. All for what?

Anonymous said...

You call yourself a blogger anymore? This the only worthwhile thing you've posted in over a month. What about Stanley Williams and the threats from the 8-Tres to wreak a little havoc on LA if the execution goes down. True all bs but isn't that what you post a lot of?

StillNoScript said...

My guess is that Wally's trying to avoid the everyday dung flinging on the two sides of the Tookie argument.

We all know where Wally stands, he knows where most of the regular commentors stand, the regular commentors know where the other regular commentors stand, and it's now just a pile of shit circling to the bottom of the toilet.

It's a done deal. Tookie's gone, and there won't be riots because this generation is too hooked on consumerism to miss an episode of PimpMyRide to get shot down by an LAPD S.W.A.T. team.

Not to disrespect any bangers, I know they still get down. But this is not the same generation of bangers that you saw tearing L.A. apart in 1992. That generation was raised by the Panthers and the Brown Berets. Dissent was in their blood.

Today, the mighty dollar rules. And that goes for the hood as well as the burbs.

Wally, great story about the childhood friends. A story like that, that rings of no journalist's agenda or partisan politics, and just tells the tale of the reality of the streets, and how tragic street life can be, is this blog at it's finest.

Anonymous said...

How ture, how very very ture, your totally right this generation is lost to blind rage, consumerism and just plain lack of pride. A while back I posted some words about "Revolution" and got the same ho hum masa from some boneheads, one stated that I would be better of starting the "Revolution" in "MEXICO" I guess he doesn't realize that for the blunder of Santa Ana this is "MEXICO" and I got some other masa about this or that meaningless shit. The gist of it was how thay were living it up the slick life moving up higher and higher and so on. How blind they are, ignorantly presuming they'll reach such hieghts as to seperate thmsevlves from reality. "LONG LIVE THE REBELLOUS HEART" he who has it will not grow rich "BUT" will move mountains for his people.

Anonymous said...

i still think you have a better shot being a revolutionary in mexico, where its needed the most
I guess your rebellious heart only applies to countries where you get 25 years of appeals for your war. Its do or die in mexico because the placas will kill yo ass asap for being a revolutionary. SOME REBEL

Anonymous said...

also, look around satana's blunder? this aint Mexico ese.

Don Quixote said...

This whole story is really tragic and it's ramafications continue. I personally have known this whole family for many many years and I wish that these youngsters would think before they shoot.
Alfred Jr.'s Grandparents who raised him as best they could since birth along with many other's(most very successful decent people) are the most gracious, generous, and nice family people one would ever want to know. And the fact that thier grandson was shot to death multiple times in front of them at their family home is heartbreaking for the whole family. I know this family tried like hell to raise all thier grandchildren right and sometimes you just can't win, but behind what seems to be a simple "gang shooting" there is real and continuing sadness.

Anonymous said...

I find it all so confusing. I mean, for what? It's not like any of these guys end up rich or even happy. Most old gangsters just end up as winos begging for change. Pathetic. The ones with real courage in the hoods are the bookworms. Serious.

Anonymous said...

What fools you are, to say that i should go, this is my land like it or not, you show your ignorance with every storke pal. and more when you say i'll get 25yrs. of appeals. Please take your head out of your ass, i not talking about commiting crimes you poor fool. It's ovisous your cuaght up in the recent hype with that rethoric. But go ahead luagh and joke about it your of no consequnce in these matters. Its apparent that your just a little person with a big mouth[or in case case, keystroke]. Someday i'm sure you'll come across a truth you can't deny.

Anonymous said...

the last time you were calling for a revolution, you talked like a pinto and the gist of your post was revolution by any means neccesary. remember that "roll it up" comment?

anyways, by what means then? youve already stated were fools for believing we can better ourselves through school.

Anonymous said...

No one who seeks to better themselves thru education, and no one who seeks better life is a fool. But to to make statements with such farvolity and intended insult is a sign of ignorance and foolishness. If i state to you that we as a people are binging held down and need to mobolize against that which is holding us down of course we must educate ourselves. My brother, and yes we are brothers inside, putting down someone who is attemping to instill pride and purpose into a much needed plain, should be helped not dragged under. Gods knows there are already many who will tend to that in this lifetime. So please do not give into the mass hype about how we have made and all that political masa thats beinging fed so amply to the masses stay ture to your heart and you won't go wrong.

Anonymous said...

Wasn't Lil's dad involved in
some "politics" with eme?
Hmmmm, the saga continues.

Anonymous said...

StillNoScript said...
Not to disrespect any bangers, I know they still get down. But this is not the same generation of bangers that you saw tearing L.A. apart in 1992. That generation was raised by the Panthers and the Brown Berets. Dissent was in their blood.

Yeah, they burned,looted, and totally fucked up their own neighborhood. Then they sit back and bitch about how fucked up life in the hood is...and how corporations won't come there, etc. etc. And you want to give them props????? PRICELESS!!!!!!!!
You're a HYPOCRITE!!!!!

Anonymous said...

WHAT THE FUCK?..I THOUGHT THIS WAS ABOUT GANG ISSUES IN L.A...NOT A AVENUES WEB SITE..?

Anonymous said...

FUKIN LAMES BRINGING UP OLD SHIT AND DRY SNITCHING?

StillNoScript said...

Anonymous said...

Yeah, they burned,looted, and totally fucked up their own neighborhood. Then they sit back and bitch about how fucked up life in the hood is...and how corporations won't come there, etc. etc. And you want to give them props????? PRICELESS!!!!!!!!
You're a HYPOCRITE!!!!!


How am I a hypocrite when I've made no contradicting point?

And, I was NOT giving props. I gave a point of view that I believe to be true.

Anonymous said...

Not giving props huh? Whatever homes. Your agenda is transparent, as is your ideology. I see through your pedo.

Anonymous said...

You started with: "Not to disrespect any bangers......and were speaking of this generation.

Then talk about the past generation
and how they tore L.A. up.

If you weren't giving props to the past generation that tore LA up, why the fuck would you need to start with "No disrespect to bangers, I know they still get down".

You don't get it both ways junior,
and quit talking out of both sides of your mouth.

Anonymous said...

Hey Look! Good arguments of "TOOKIE" death have been DEBATED, argued and CARRIED out. Finally.

But these white trash journalist "So-Called" bloggers piss me off. Hey look, LIBERAL DEMOCRAT BIASED fuckers, you JUMP out here, speak your racial slur's towards hispanic's and a MERE story of a "Friendship" gone south...and then,

Poke your "So-Called" BLOGGER PEN at the life here in Southern California and MAKE ATTEMPTS to disrespect the RAZA by making WORTHLESS disparaging remarks regarding a seemingly otherwise good story for those that make "WORTHY" sense and arguments.

I doubt ANY of you worthless white "INTELLECTUALS" have ever experienced any real-life trauma regarding events discussed here, nor did any of you KNOW the "Gangsta's" blog-web and have ANY fucking idea of HOW rediculous you sound, when you sound off your intellectual bullshit.

Go back to work for John F. Kerry.

AT LEAST HE NEEDS YOU, and your FLIP FLOP BULLSHIT. Hillary 2008 right?

For the sake of my race....

PLEASE, just go kill yourself.

Save us the painstaking task.

ALL WHITE INTELLECTUALS, SHUT UP!

Let this board discuss REALITY.

This is a GOOD STORY, with an underlying motivation, and Wally, try as he may, puts up with all of the BULLSHIT, posted by dip-shits like you.

White intellectuals make our white bretheren look like nosey, stuck up sons-of-bitches. JUST SHUT UP!

This blog illustrates the fundamental differences found in and out of the prison life, the life long history and stories told by all. NOT JUST THE ASSININE B.S. White point of view made here.

I am white, intelligent, and I cannot STAND your kind. SHUT UP!The FRAMER'S of our constitution NEVER meant for the 1st Amendment to be used in such a derogatory venue. Simple racism remarks have no place here, and until you have walked the walk....JUST SHUT UP!

Already!

Anonymous said...

Amen brother. They think because they have a little bit of a college education that they know every fucking thing. They aint got a clue. They just spout what their
white liberal intellectual college
professors have told them.
BULLSHIT!!!!

Anonymous said...

BORING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Maybe nowadays when your tipped up
your family is fair game too.
Sad.

Anonymous said...

this isn't wally. not anymore. his style, his choice of words, this blogg, everything that made him wally is no longer...believe you me homie.
but why wally, why?

Anonymous said...

Its not about a generational difference in bangers. Its about the ethnic makeup of the hood having changed. where south central was once heavily black, it now has a large population of mexicans and mexicans dont act out on their resentment by rioting outside of prisons. blacks just dont have the numbers anymore.

Anonymous said...

it seems all the same to me, im 25 now i can remeber when i was 10, it seems the same to me

Anonymous said...

i recall the jails being mostly black guys, now its mostly us. and you know its the prison class that kick off riots

Don Quixote said...

The famous American writer and philosopher "Mark Twain" wrote many years ago(and still true today),
"I can go to any country in the world and tell you who the exploited people are, All I have to do is visit the prisons and see who is there, that will tell you who."
More true than ever, so to all you little homies, "Don't let yourself become chow for the system", because there is a system in place and it's hungry for you

Anonymous said...

I watched a Nat. Geographic program last night about how they make reinforced concrete cells for the new supermax prisons. Them suckas are built to withstand any and all abuse that a human can rage forth with. And they're building them for GENERATIONS of folks. The aim is to house you in near isolation ECONOMICALLY. Yes, my brothers there is a place for them that do'nt fit or zig when they oughta be zaggin. Peace out.

Anonymous said...

fuck mark twain!
some once said "Id rather die on my feet, then live on my knees!"

Anonymous said...

Hey burro, the quote goes like this: "IT IS BETTER TO DIE ON MY FEET, THAT TO CONTINUE LIVING ON MY KNEES" - Emiliano Zapata.

Amen!!!!

Anonymous said...

no matter how it was said beleave me there's no better time to step up and deal with the masa thats going around. we are not and must not become complasent and go to the slaughter quietly! it's all out there for us to see and even though there are many who will clown for your thoughts, pay them no mind. time will tell all so keep your hearts pure and your mind will follow, remember way back when i'm sure there were many who thought Zapata and all the others were just a joke. that their REVOLUTION, would not come to frution, yet those words you said spoke vulumes in the fabric of our glorious history.

Anonymous said...

"fuck Mark Twain"

Que babaro! Tengo que ir a vomitar!

Anonymous said...

yeah, fuck mark twain! and huckleberry!

Anonymous said...

have you got so much hate for the white intelects because your jelous, have you got so much hate because your not the one who calls the shots you must be a puppet for the fact that i know some real down mother *&^%s and they can care less about anything going on unless it involves them who the hell are you if you got a problem with these white intelects run for for governer dont complain you see that guy talkin crap hes the one who is lazy you see the one doing something he was productive i dont claim to be smart but im not a crybaby either i am who i am because i earned my way i put my shit in so i could sit in step up and do something about your life FOOL.

StillNoScript said...

Anonymous said...

Not giving props huh? Whatever homes. Your agenda is transparent, as is your ideology. I see through your pedo.


What 'pedo' is that?

And, I've always laid my ideology out on the table for everyone. You make it sound as if I'm trying to hide it.

Tell me though, what supposed 'agenda' of mine is transparent?

StillNoScript said...

Anonymous said...

You started with: "Not to disrespect any bangers......and were speaking of this generation.


Correct. I'm certain there are gang members here who read and post often, and I didn't want them to get the wrong idea of what I was trying to say.

Then talk about the past generation
and how they tore L.A. up.


They did, for about a week. In case you forgot, there was a riot. How is this giving props? I'm stating a fact.

If you weren't giving props to the past generation that tore LA up, why the fuck would you need to start with "No disrespect to bangers, I know they still get down".

Because today's gang members who happened to read what I wrote could easily mistaken that for me saying that they are soft. Turns out, you're the only one jumping to conclusions, and for an entirely different reason.

You don't get it both ways junior,

No, I don't. Your're making little sense. Why don't you just spit out what you're trying to say?

and quit talking out of both sides of your mouth.

I have nothing to hide. Ask me a straight question, and you'll get a straight answer.

Anonymous said...

Puro Mark Twain

he rocked a big brusha and did shit his way

Anonymous said...

mark twain come mierda de perro

Anonymous said...

mark twain come mierda de perro

Anonymous said...

Thass Peckerwood Twain to you, homes

Anonymous said...

"fuck mark twain"
y tu yo boca de mierda, cabeza sin sesos!
"ignorance is bliss!!" burro! maybe if you tried reading it might help your affliction.

Anonymous said...

i read it in school couldnt relate to it,
The Art of War by Sun Tzu is good reading

StillNoScript said...

I think we've finally found a time of peace at In The Hat.

We've gone from Tookie to Mark Twain. I won't be the one to disturb it.

Wally, or anyone else in the know, is there a follow up on the Guttierez/Salinas shooting? Will there will be some kind of fallout in the prison ranks due to this? Or, is it pretty much an isolated incident?

Anonymous said...

Heres a joke my pops told me years ago, I'd like to dedicate it to all the RAZA haters i've read in recent months. 3 men sat in a bar, a chinaman,irishman a gava and a MEXICAN. The chino says; i like to toast the great wall of china, no man has scale ever scaled it, the irish vato says; i'd like to toast the green green grass of ireland no man has ever conquerd it and the gava says; i'd like to toast the great flag of america whose colors don't run. They all turn to the MEXICANO with narrow beady eyes and evil smirks, he looks back riases his glass and says; I'd like to toast the great "EAGLE" of "MEXICO" who flew over the great wall of china took a shit on the greeg green grass of ireland and wipe its culo on the flag of america. Ya Sabes.

Anonymous said...

fuck mark twain"
y tu yo boca de mierda, cabeza sin sesos!
"ignorance is bliss!!" burro! maybe if you tried reading it might help your affliction.

Y taka, taka en japones.wtf? are you being sarcastic, cause you don't make any sense.

Anonymous said...

What a great country America is. The people in it are allowed to bad mouth it.
Mexico is a MUCH better place.
That's why there's so much immigration from here to there.
Talk is cheap. People speak with their actions.
Do you know how foolish you sound badmouthing this country when you are free to leave? aND YOU ONLY GOTTA DRIVE 100 MILES.
THAT is the classic example of a
CRYBABY.
INCREDIBLE.

Anonymous said...

i read it in school couldnt relate to it,
then you must be dumb. you dont have to be a gava to relate to things common to all people, its what makes writers good .



The Art of War by Sun Tzu is good reading

the best way to read this , is over and over and over and over and over and over , until certain behaviours just come naturally. by constantly reading this book, certain things become familiar and easier to enact

best recognize fo sho biatch

Anonymous said...

you must be black, what is
"fo sho biatch"

Anonymous said...

its ebonics for , " for sure bitch." but then that doesnt get anyone riled up here. so on dat note, im bout to be up outta this biatch fo sho my nigga. g's up hoes down, if that biatch cant swim, she bound to drizown. yay yay!
oh yayh, mexicans are the hat dancing, tequila drinking, mariachi music loving, people of the sun

RetiredJoker said...

Twas the night before Tookie's execution ...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Twas the night before Christmas and all through San Quentin, the crips were protesting, and others were ventin'.



The cyanide hung by the chamber with care, in hopes that the reaper soon would be there.



The inmates were nestled all snug in their bed; except for Old Tookie, who soon would be dead.



And me with my beer mug, dressed warm in my flannel, had curled up to watch it, on my favorite News Channel.



I set up my TIVO to record the news station, and thoroughly loved the momentous occasion.



It seemed lady justice had gotten her way, and that there would be one less savage today.



When outside the jail there arose such a clatter, the cameras had turned to see what was the matter.



When what to my civilized eyes did appear, but a lineup of actors, all liberal, half queer.



The misguided freaks drew some curious looks, as they proclaimed his innocence; clutching his books.



The tears then flew out from Sarandon's eyes, as she nominated him again for the Nobel Peace Prize.



The actors were tethered to an ACLU sleigh, all towing the line of the urban decay.



On Asner, on Penn, on liberal cop-haters, On Sharpton, on Jesse and other race-baiters.



Then at 3:01 all curled up like a beetle, Tookie cried like a bitch as they gave him the needle.



When up from the actors there arose such a cry, they had failed in their mission, and Tookie DID DIE !!



I heard the dead victims say, as I turned out my light, Merry Christmas to all .. there was justice tonight !!

Merry Christmas and Happy New year fellow Bloggers.

Anonymous said...

Ok so say my problems will be gone if just drive 100 miles I'll home. But little do you mention of how my land had been stolen by those from across the ocean. Hey pick up a map and see where you stand, you'll note, I don't have to drive very far to set my feet on this land of mine. And if your are white by birth or by right. It's not up for debate, the shits been said, Long Live Aztlan, by the blood of my ancestral dead. So if you wish please contuine to bitch about my constant abhorence of your pasty ass pitch. I think I'll wiat till that day when we can be face to face then we'll see whose place it relly is.
[i loved the tookie peom so i took a shot].

Anonymous said...

simon, we dont have no love for those patsy fools. but what about the big homies with bigger brochas? i dont think the natives of aztlan had big moustaches. thats a european thing. so where do those vatos fall because you know they're more european in descent than the dark vatos with one or two pelos on their chin. its all good were all raza , im just trying see where you stand on vatos claiming to be from aztlan but definitely of european descent?

home is where the heart is que no?

Anonymous said...

A brocha does not make or break the RAZA, Yes your correct the walrus thing is euro. But we must remember that the anciants were influanced by many. Frist when the spanish came one of the frist things they did was to destroy all that was written Aztec history in an effort to convert the people, [as though the plauge and other euro diceases weren't enough to diseminate our people]. Then through their relgious fervor they began to influence all around them, from clothing to apperiance. Also you must remember the Aztec people were great conquerers travlers and tradesmen and through their many adventures they also picked up other customs. Later in the 1600 and 1700 hunderds after many decades of euro ocupation and intercultural minglings the great bloodline was injected with euro blood. But remember that doesn't mean shit, just go try and tell a skinhead you're one of them because you've got euro blood. Chale we are who we are, "MEXICANO" and deny it all you want as time goes on there will always be someone to remind you of it. As for the big homies and gangbangers out there, [i'm not talking about varrios, thats a whole different thing]. We must learn and accept the difference between a criminal and a patriot.
p.s. i enjoy the interchange of our different views, but i feel theres no need to dog each other out to get the point across.

Anonymous said...

You're REALLY hung up on the Aztlan thing. Perhaps you could answer a few questions:

1. If the Aztecs were so great and powerful, why did they lose their native land to the Euros?

2. Are you under the misconception
that "Mexican" is a race?

3. After you take back the soutwestern United States, which European country do you think will come and take it over again, because the politicians running it
WILL sell it out.

4. Do you not realize that the ruling class in Mexico are ALL of European descent? SPAIN is in Europe son.

5. Do you REALLY want to turn part
of the great United States into the poverty stricken place that our ancestors left for a better life here?

6. If that does happen, do you think the Euro's are going to let us "Mestizo peasants" have any power or live a good life?

YOU NEED TO REALLY STUDY THE HISTORY OF "OUR LAND"....and be grateful you're here.
You Aztlan radicals have your heads up your culos....but you know what, why am I even trying to talk to you.
You're like the anti-death penalty
folks...you're speaking from emotion and not logic. You're mad that "our people" got their ass kicked and their land taken a LONG TIME AGO. Guess what, it wasn't "your land"....I'm quite sure that you're not 100% Aztec son....you have European blood in you. Why are you so angry at that
side of "your people". Self-hate is a bitch, que no?

Anonymous said...

For ALL you Aztlan fanaticals out there....what is it like to
dream and preach and center your life around something that you will not see in YOUR lifetime?

Fate will determine it. Not you.
Not your kind. FATE.

You could have a much better life while you're here if you concentrated on something you could control.
Try getting a life.
Try doing something positive.
That hate is going to eat you up.
And remember,
"when you ride out for revenge,
be ready to dig two graves".
Think about it. Someday it just might make sense to you.

StillNoScript said...

Retired Joker, you hurt my feelings with that poem! LOL.

Anyhow; Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you, to. Be safe, bro. If you're going to grab that 12 pack of Corona (Like I am), make sure someone else drives!

Anonymous said...

RETIRED JOKER SAID....3:01...NOW IS THAT CAUSE HE LIVES IN THE EAST COAST,...OR HE WANTS US TO BELIEVE THAT HE DOES.....CAUSE WASN'T IT 12:01 A.M.,OR IS RETIRED JOKER A GUY THAT IS "AHEAD OF HIS TIME"
.....LOL!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

TO ANSWER YOUR ONE QUESTION,,,,THE ATEZS...AZLAN...ARE TAKING OVER YOUR COUNTRY!


ANY QUESTIONS?....

Anonymous said...

Whatever kid. You should spend a little more time studying for your college courses. It would do you more good.

However, if they do take over the U.S., YOU'RE KIDS ARE GOING TO BE SCREWED.....JUST LIKE YOUR ANCESTORS WERE IN MEXICO.

ANY QUESTIONS?

Anonymous said...

Dream on peasant, dream on.

We ALL got to have dreams, even if
we know they'll never come true.

Anonymous said...

For ALL you Aztlan fanaticals out there....what is it like to
dream and preach and center your life around something that you will not see in YOUR


You may as well add white supramist
fanaticals to your comment-as long as the dollar controls our gov., you will never see a white America

Chili Chokin' Pepper Belly

Anonymous said...

retired joker
YOU ARE A POET!

Anonymous said...

I'm going to anwser all you're questions in the order you asked them, so as you suggested to me, I'll riderate to you, Please take your head out of your culo while you read this.

1. The "MIGTHY AZTECS" did not lose the war with the euros, read your history, and not that shit you've been told throughout your formative years.
The Aztecs were defeated by the deceases that the euros brought with them [by the thousands] plauge measles and shit.
In the end they run the conquistadores out! it's all there for you to learn about if you would only take some time and learn it.

2. I'm under no misconseption here, I might say that you're poor ass is the one under the misconseption.
Your the type that takes whats given to them and begins to twist and turn it around. If you wish to say MEXICANO, CHICANO or MEXICA are something contrieved created or manufactured you're turely misled. The ancestral tribes are the forefathers of what now is our beautiful race.

3. You seem to forget that we're not in the anciant ages anymore, that we as a people have come around and hunderds of our youth and college educated gente our seeking a new way. And you're still in that old frame of mind that we're just going to sit around and barbaque qur asses off. You know just like when the gava laugh at the shit that used to say "made in china" So don't sit around thinking that what we take back is going to be up for the taking.

4.Yes I do, but, we're not in MEXICO, and before you get off on saying that I said this was MEXICO, Let me qauifiy this statement. There two differant cultures within one, just like you and I are adamant about our views so to in MEXICO. There are many there who know exactly what your saying about thier goverment and to say nothing going on there to bring fourth a chane then I say to youo one word, "ZAPATISTA".

5. Who or what knowledge do you have that says it would turn into a proverty stricken anything. Are you one of those masaheads who think we're at the zenitfh of wealth and power in the US right now. Have you not seen the death and destruction due to current our goverment and its policies. You think that this goverment doesn't view you as the mexican goverment views it own. You're a straight fool if you see it any different.

6. There it is, just how the oppresser's have in check! You have a defeated mentally, you've already lost the war before you've fought the battle, but fear not ese you and all your types [bandwagon jumpers] will be taken care of when we are in control, oh and quit stating that we are going to somehow rid ourselves of all whitey's and such, that's not REVOLUTION, A change of power at the government level is what we're after and the betterment of our peoples lives. And if you still can't cope, then well you're just not one of us huh.

Anonymous said...

"1. The "MIGTHY AZTECS" did not lose the war with the euros, read your history, and not that shit you've been told throughout your formative years.
The Aztecs were defeated by the deceases that the euros brought with them [by the thousands] plauge measles and shit.
In the end they run the conquistadores out! it's all there for you to learn about if you would only take some time and learn it."
if im correct i do believe that you are wrong on one thing here the aztecs never ran the conquistadores off, they were conquered by cortez, they did make cortez and his armys (spanish and indigeneuos tribes that were tired of aztec rule) retreat at once, it was an episode that if you remeber it was called "La Noche Triste" because according to legend cortez wept, because in their hasty retreat they had to dump the gold they were carrying (it was slowing them down) into the tenochititlan canal. After that he went back to the coast, were he had first landed to get more reinforcements, indigenous only , because he only had about 40 or so spanish soldiers. After that he came back but it was almost not necessary to fight, because by that time the remaining soliders of the aztec armys were in no position to fight because of all the plagues.

Anonymous said...

Hey does anyone know why BOP changed there stance on AB leader. Is it true that Tommy Silverstein has been moved out of USP Leavenworth to Florence, Colorado.

Anonymous said...

They did not change status, he is there in lue of transfer to and from California Central District trial for a RICO prosecution of all the AB leaders and some affiliates. He will be returned to Levenworth upon subpena status as closed. He will be shackled like the silence of the lambs guy when transferd to and from trial and while a witness for the defence. I think there was an artical about it a while ago.

Anonymous said...

Hey revolutionary,yeah right, you're making alot of progress.
Bush got re-elected. Doesn't sound like too much progress to me.
You are FUNNY.
And VERY misinformed/misguided.

Anonymous said...

Yes you are very right the euro mutt did cry over losing the gold, and yes your right again in stating that he utilized indigous people along with the spanish. And as you state the indigous fought with him [not for him] because of their hatered for "The Azteca".
As you may also recall the "Malinchi" the indian woman who betrayed them, to many euros shes a herione but to many MEXICANS shes a trader. If you go to any Chincano comunity you'll note that the elders will tell the story of her in a negative note. Needless to tell you that the main and most destructive enemy comes from within. Also I'd like to say that even though I don't have any idea of your foundation in these matters as you don't of me. The thing is that we are expressing our views without using a gun or any type of violence to get them across.
p.s. to the inept observer;
"Hey Revolutionary"
My only qoute on your statement is that you seem to feel that i've lost some point or right of thought because bush is pres. Hey moco we've all lost even you fool, is the current state of affairs makes you feel suprior damn you stupid.

Anonymous said...

(.......As you may also recall the "Malinchi" the indian woman who betrayed them, to many euros shes a herione but to many MEXICANS shes a trader. If you go to any Chincano comunity you'll note that the elders will tell the story of her in a negative note.......)
first of all let me see if i can get a point across to you : chicano last time that i checked was a word that was used to describe some one of mexican-american descent... now that being said the chicano "elders" you mention would have nothing to say about her because more than likely they have never heard about her. even if you had said "if you go any mexican community" your statement its stil kinda wrong because not only the "elders" but just about everyone in mexican culture knows who malinche is/or was. Also in european culture she is not considered a heroine, as a matter of fact few people have even heard of her and the reason is becuase she was an unsignificant character in the downfall of the aztec empire. And yes the other indigeneous tribes
were fighting for cortez the main reason was because he had promissed them freedom from aztec rule. but they would have never expected to have been put trough more torture at his hands.
ps: i think you shoul go back and read a little more about history before trying to lecture people on it

Anonymous said...

Quit arguing with the revelutionary.
When you argue with a fool....
there's two fools arguing.

Anonymous said...

chale, the vato has good points.
here's the thing though, for people to take you seriously, you have to speak clearly and concisely. and that requires charismatic oratory skills. brush up on that , and your argument will reach more ears. look at all those leaders of revolutions, great orators!

Anonymous said...

i have an oral job for you, ese.

Anonymous said...

seras puto!

Anonymous said...

Ese, be happy that that lots of mexicans have euro blood in them or else you would have those fine ass heinas on Telemundo with the blue eyes and round asses!! You don't want no indian looking bitches with dark ass nipples and fucked up cheek bones. Give me a light skinned heina with brown eyes and black hair....damn!
Lets face it, we'd be some ugly motherfuckers if we were 100% Aztec! How many fine ass indians have you've seen??? And none of them have tits! I thank my european ancestors for giving our latina women big hips and nice tits. I thank our aztec ancestors for giving our women the ability to carry large amounts of cargo on their backs, read calenders made of rocks and make corn into 72 different kinds of food.

Anonymous said...

that shit was funny.
its not about trying to be white ese, its about recognizing who you are.

Anonymous said...

I LIKE ALL WOMEN: INDIAN, WHITE, ASIAN, BLACK, BROWN, YELLOW, AND RED. SO LONG AS THEY DONT HAVE BIG ASS BELLIES

Anonymous said...

"Chale the vato has good points"
Thank you for the advise, its good to read that someone is really seeing through to my views. I'm saden to read so many adverse opinions to something that is so foundemental to our cause. [But i guess the old adage; An opioin is like an asshole, everybody has one, it surly appiles here] But, as has been so sadly proven time and again, that, for every voice that comes from the heart a million will raise to muffle it and kill it off. As to the person who says;
"it's not about being white but who you are"
I can only say go to spain or any other euro country and claim your eruo roots and see just how quickly they take to you.

Anonymous said...

i said both things. Something you should understand is that making things black or white eliminates grey. some gente like myself may think you make good points, but that dont mean everything you say is gold. alot of it isnt. i think you have a high regard of your abilities to save or uplift the raza but you still need some polishing up before people start to take you serious.

Anonymous said...

Associated Press Writer

SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) - Ending a long-standing practice, California prison officials have agreed to stop using race as a principal criterion in segregating inmates.

The prison system's settlement of a case filed by a black inmate comes after the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in February that California prisons cannot automatically house inmates by race, even temporarily.

``This is a fundamental sea change in the way the Department of Corrections does business,'' Bert Deixler, a Los Angeles-based attorney who represented the inmate, said in a statement.

The settlement between the inmate and the state Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation was filed last week with the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals and was made public Monday.

Starting in March, prison officials will end their use of an unwritten policy that dates back a quarter century. Inmates arriving at the state's 11 reception centers had been bunked automatically with inmates of the same race for 60 days, a measure taken in part to reduce the risk of racial violence.

Once processed, inmates were assigned to a cell in one of the state's 33 prisons on a largely nonracial basis. They were segregated again by race whenever they were transferred.

``The policy now is that an offender's race will not be used as a sole determining factor in housing,'' corrections spokeswoman Terry Thornton said. ``Our primary goal is to ensure that racial integration is completed in a manner that maximizes institutional security.''

Beginning in March, corrections officials in the reception centers will house inmates based on new criteria. That will include interviews to determine inmates' compatibility with members of another race, their age, the type of crime they committed and their physical characteristics.

The department will train its personnel and create a tracking system to determine if future violence in reception areas is based on race.

All reception centers are to comply with the policy by March 2007. It will spread to the general inmate population by 2008, Thornton said.

Thornton did not have an estimate on the cost of implementing the settlement. But it will have an immediate and wide-ranging effect on the nation's largest prison system. Of California's 167,700 state prison inmates, 37 percent are Hispanic, 29 percent are black, 28 percent are white and 6 percent are classified as another race.

The settlement is the final chapter in a legal saga that began in 1995, when inmate Garrison Johnson filed a lawsuit challenging the department's practice of segregating inmates.

Johnson, who is black, has been imprisoned since 1987 and is serving a sentence of 25 years to life for murder, robbery and assault.

His lawyer said he has been housed with black inmates during his entire time in prison. Sharing a cell only with other blacks, Johnson claimed, pressured him to join a black prison gang and put him in danger when he refused, Deixler said.

The U.S. District Court and 9th Circuit sided with prison officials, who historically were given great leeway to determine the best way to group inmates.

In a 5-3 decision in February, however, the Supreme Court said prisons cannot use race to segregate inmates except under extraordinary circumstances.

It sent the case back to the 9th Circuit, but California corrections officials decided to reach a settlement rather than produce evidence proving that their practice was necessary and effective.

Anonymous said...

the only this will fly is if its done en masse and CDC officials have the balls to weather the storm resulting from a large number of homocides initially

doing it a little bit at a time will still give gangs power to influence its members to attack their new cellies, done en masse, the gangmembers will be busy dealing with surviving their new cellie to be giving orers

Johnie said...

The Avenues ? that is the gay gang that be wastin time murdering innocent blacks, mothafuck those pussies !!! I aint sayin that you cannot beef with black gang if its about drug territory , or maybe robberies thats legit cause its fuckin business.

Anonymous said...

HEY JOHNIE...
WHAT ABOUT THE BLACK GANGS THAT KILL INNOCENT MEXICANS AND WHITES AND ASIANS ETC.,ARE THEY PUSSIES TOO?....WAS TOOKIE ONE?

Anonymous said...

let tookie go, you fuckers hating on him do more to keep him alive than those who just said fuck it, dont mean nothing, and move on

Anonymous said...

"I aint sayin that you cannot beef with black gang if its about drug territory , or maybe robberies thats legit cause its fuckin business."

Stop watching your fucking movies, this isn't menace to society. Business, what a fucking clown. I got a dime that says this chump is from the subarbs!

Anonymous said...

sounds like a biatch to me

Anonymous said...

sounds like a crybaby nigger to me

Anonymous said...

SOME OF the same people say that if you were serious about opposing gang violence, you would allow the authorities to "debrief" you on what you know about the Crips. Do you have any inside information that could be used to weaken the Crips or other gangs, and why have you refused to be debriefed?

"THE FACT of the matter is that "debriefing" is a euphemism for snitching -- telling on people. In my redemptive transition, I vowed to myself not to participate in any kind of violence, or anything that would harm other people, and for me to tell on another person is, in my opinion, harming another individual.

But first and foremost, I have no information.

Secondly, there's another contradiction with these individuals who continuously promote this claim about me. As it stands, the Departmental Operations Manual clearly states that the only gangs or individuals who will be debriefed are prison gangs. The Crips and the Bloods are not considered prison gangs. Prison gangs are those that were formed and created in the prison.

If I were a gang member, and if there was any iota of data that showed this, I would never have left the hole. I was in there in solitary confinement for close to seven years. And if debriefing was necessary -- if it was legal for a street gang -- then they would have done that to me then." Tookie

From Interview>
http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/gasper281105.html

Gambinoo said...

You say i sound like a bitch , i wonder what you say when i put an ak-47 in youre head bet you say the same mothafuckin pussy. The Avenues is the biggest pussies in east los just like the eme, eme is known for being faggest assholes bitches punks and fucking each others ass in prison. Yes some black gangs have murdered mexicans but it aint generally racially motivated like avenues its uncommon to a crip or blood gang running the streets lookin for mexicans to kill or running after mexicans, if they kill a mexican civilian its either a gang initiation or business which i say is legit if mexicans gangs do ikill a civilian because of gang initiation. and yeah black gangs and mexican gangs are gonna beef as long as they live in the same place but faggets like avenues fuckin cry babies they go crying to the bitch ass eme sayin we got nigger sin our neighbourhood what we do, bet the avenues wanted nigger dick in they ass

Anonymous said...

Great article on seriously legit solution to gangs in America.



http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/01/international/01guatemala.html

Anonymous said...

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/01/international/01guatemala.html

Anonymous said...

you stupid stinky fuckin nigger,,you run your dumb big fuckin lips like you are about something,,you aint shit..talk all that shit on the streets nigger..you sound like a cell soldier to me..Fuck you and fuck Dookie Williams

Anonymous said...

THE KILLING OF A CIVILIAN NO MATHER WHAT RACE IT IS, IS NOT JUSTIFE SO TO THE NIGGER SAYING ABOUT KILLING OF INNOCENT MEXICANS SEE YOU IN THE PINTA FUCKEN DIRTY NIGGER MAYBE YOU CAN BE MY SLAVE IN THERE WATERMELON EATING MOTHERFUCKER.

Anonymous said...

messycans be dirty moftherfuccers living fifty to a small house. you niggas was our sex slaves giitin fucced by big blacks in the pen before all your wetback cousins moved into yo dirty house. landcsaping motherfuckers. go back to mexico

Anonymous said...

WE DO THE YARDS BECAUSE YOU FUCKEN STINKY NIGGERS ARE TO LAZY TO GO TO WORK WELFARE MOTHER FUCKERS AND MEXICO IS JUST 2 HOURS AWAYS BUT AFRICA IS A LONG WAY BACK BY THE WAY HAPPY NEW YEAR'S TOOKIE LOL

Anonymous said...

fuck all niggers,fuck the crips,,fuck the bloods,,and especially fuck tookie williams

Anonymous said...

fuck all niggers,fuck the crips,,fuck the bloods,,and especially fuck tookie williams

yeah and fuck lil trigger and the eme puto.. we are all men and of the same lifestyle. of course you will never realize that being americanized and adapting the idealogy of the ku klux klan...

lil tookie

Anonymous said...

you stupid stinky fuckin nigger,,you run your dumb big fuckin lips like you are about something,,you aint shit..talk all that shit on the streets nigger..you sound like a cell soldier to me..Fuck you and fuck Dookie Williams

Net Banging at its finest. I'm sure the Sur is proud of you. A perfect racist who had a wood running la eme. You confused son of a bitches. Norte running shit chale'holmes.

Anonymous said...

YOUR CONFUSED FARMER YOU THINK YOUR BLACK FUCKING IDDIOT NORTONTO!

R2K said...

Bono is Brian Peppers!

Anonymous said...

whats all the bullshit about? we all and i mean know that the fucken monkeys are loud and sank ass fools. even other niggers will say the same thing its nothing new. why all you nigger lovers keep com'n with the bullshit is ridiculous ya sabes! put a suit on a monkey and all you have is a MONKEY!! in a suit es todo.
get with the shit and stop denying.

Anonymous said...

Blah

Anonymous said...

You can't even spell IDIOT.

Anonymous said...

YOU ALL ARE SOME DUMB ASS MOTHERFUCKERS WHO ALL DESERVE TO DIE WITH 223 ROUND IN YOUR HEAD.

ALL OF YOU TALKIN SHIT ABOUT 'NIGGERS'. UMMMM I SEE MORE OF YOU FAT ASS MEXICAN MOTHERFUCKER WEARING SHIT LIKE SEAN JEAN AND ROCAWEAR THEN ANY OTHER BROTHAS AROUND. AND MOST OF IT IS THE FAKE SHIT FROM SWAP MEETS. Y'ALL AINT NOTHIN BUT THE 'NEW' NIGGERS. DONT EVER FORGET THAT.

BY THE WAY SINCE MOST OF YOU DON'T SOUND LIKE YOU WENT HIGHER THEN THE 3RD GRADE IN SCHOOL, SLAVERY EXISTED IN JUST ABOUT EVERY COUNTRY IN WESTERN HEMISPHERE, INCLUDING MEXICO. IN MEXICO THE SPANIARDS ENSLAVED THE INDIANS. SO MOST OF YOU PROUD MEXICANOS ARE DESENDANTS FROM SLAVES.

THE REAL REASON WHY MOST OF YOU HATE BLACKS IS BECAUSE WE ARE BIGGER THEN YOU. AND BECAUSE OF THIS THE MAJORITY OF YOU COULD NEVER BEAT US COMIN FROM THE SHOULDERS. THE SECOND REASON IS PRETTY OBVIOUS, YOU CANT KEEP YOUR WOMEN AWAY FROM US, NO MATTER HOW HARD YOU TRY. NO SELF RESPECTING LATINA WANTS SOME FAT ASS MOTHER FUCKER WITH A 4 INCH UNCUT DOG DICK INSIDE OF THEM. NOT WHEN THEY CAN GET WITH AN AVERAGE 6'2, 210 MUSCULAR BROTHA WITH A 10 INCH BLACK DICK FOR THAT HOT LATIN PUSSY... YOU COULD NEVER, EVER, EVER COMPETE WITH THAT AND YOU KNOW IT!

SO FAT ASSES DROP THE CARNE ASADA, JOIN A GYM, GET SOME JENNY CRAIG AND GET A PENIS ENLARGEMENT AND LOOSE YOUR FEAR OF BLACK MEN.

Anonymous said...

THE ONLY FEAR MEXICAN BROTHA'S HAVE OF NIGGERS IS OF BEING TOO CLOSE TO THEIR SMELLY APE FIGURES.
FOR ALL YOUR SIZE WHETHER IN STATURE OR MYTH ABOUT NIGGER DICK. YOU STUPID APES LACK HEART AND PRIDE. IF WE ARE THE NEW NIGGERS AND YOU ARE STILL THE SAME OLD NIGGERS WHAT MAKES YOU BETTER. LIKE I SAID FOR ALL THE SIZE IS THAT IS MIRRORED FOR STUPIDITY. JUST AS AFRICA IS A BIG PEICE OF LAND AND HAS BEEN AROUND WITH APES FOREVER AND HOW MUCH FURTHER ADVANCED ARE YOU FUCKING APES FROM EVOLUTION.

Anonymous said...

LOOK AT HISTORY THE ONLY THING NIGGERS HAVE EVER DONE GOOD IS ENTERTAIN PEOPLE. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN NIGGERS AND MONKEYS IS THAT NIGGERS ARE NOW PAID

Anonymous said...

Maybe i'm computer illiterate or maybe there is a red flag when mayates post here.... hehe but...

There was this one topic that I wanted to reply to where this one vato comes off like he is a historian and has some inside information about mexi/black gangs.

I knew some dudes from Florida who had cheaper prices than Cali... he told me to listen to rap records and you will find the subleminal messages.

Next, I can't dispute his claims of South Los and Hoover going to war, but if they tried to sell a key for $23,000 then the South Los got what they deserved, JACKED! Secondly, why do I keep reading online about all these myths about black gangs paying tax? When is the last time one of your homeboys sold a key to a brother for $23K? ?!?! As evident, and as society dictates all over the planet- when you can't afford to live any longer due to inflation, the oppressed will do whatever it takes to survive..

30 piru is on the east side (Central Ave and King Blvd)and pledges no allegiance with the Jungles and Fruit Town Brims other than being bloods. 18 street Rancho Park does NOT have a click over there, thats Cuarenta, BMS, 38 Street turf. Also Fruit Town Brims don't claim Rollin 30's they claim 35th, 36th and 37th street Brims. 30's are Crips on the West Side and Piru on the east side, enemies!

Although this writer seems convincing his shit is not as factual as he makes it sound. He is especially off when he described bloods and crips dropping the c and b off of their name. Here is what he wrote.. "A few strong sets in the Black Gang Community put the El Eme coup to rest but you still have some strong holds that have the mentality of ridding the basin of Black Gangs. But with Crips and Bloods dropping their Crip and Blood designation to form stronger alliances such as the Rolling 20 Outlaws and all Hoover Sets. Eight Tray Gangsters are believed to be discussing doing the same. Rolling 60s and Rolling 30s are doing the same."

This idiot... All Hoovers always got along, they didn't gain strength by dropping the alliance with the Crips, they made themselves targets for all gang members in Southern California be it black or brown except 18streets. In fact, its the exact opposite of what this writer is trying to say.

Rollin 20 Outlaws have ALWAYS BEEN ROLLIN 20 OUTLAWS, a small set on the East Side that are bloods. How does dropping the term blood make them stronger? Rollin 60 and Rollin 30 have always been off and on allies/enemies... maybe he meant 30's and 40's who by the way has a deep history before their 13 year war. The 30's started the 40's.

He also wrote: "So whoever posted this diatribe about El Eme attempting to stem the flow of violence in the Brown Community is pushing BS. El Eme was taking control of the Cocaine Drug Market and knew that they needed all their resources to wrestle the distribution from the hands of the Black Gangs in South Central LA. For a minute it looked like they were going to accomplish their mission. As Black Gangs were still at odds with each and then this new assault from the Mexican Gangs (And it’s just that with the exception of MS–all Mexican Gangs which is why midway in this post I stopped calling them Latino Gangs)they had to regroup. Black Gangs were getting messages from their comrades in state prisons saying there were being slaughtered inside because of the retaliation their sets were doing on the outside."

Blacks getting slaughtered? haha What are we animals.. and to slaughter is to die. How many inmates been killed in the past 13 years, and of that ratio how many were black? Fools got extra's, reminds me of the American Media Propaganda to boost the morale of US Soldiers and to decieve U.S. Followers.

He wrote: "They had to form alliances with groups like the Nation of Islam, Black Guerrilla family, Blue Notes, Blood Nation, and the New Black Panther Party for protection."

Is this fool a idiot or does he have diarrhea of the mouth? First of all, the Nation of Islam is about Religeon.. thats like saying Southsiders become Catholics to avoid the Norte's. A real Crip doesn't join the BGF, those are the enemies. BGF are allies with bloods, joining the BGF doesn't protect you from La Eme... unless he is saying La Eme doesn't want funk with the small ass BGF! lol

I can tell by reading a handful of you have walked the walk but the other 95% just talk the talk. I agree with the Norte fool, "Those pom poms must be heavy!" You guys act like La Eme is a football team and you sit back and cheer them on. The only thing that I agreed with from this fan was when he wrote:

"That my friends would usher in a whole new era of Gang Warfare in the Streets of South Central. But this was a DOPE grab. Don’t romanticize this situation with any love for the Latin Community, this is about money plan and simple."

I have always agreed that La Eme is bigger and more dangerous than the little homies (southsiders) think. It's okay for the ones who will rise in rank and become Mafia Members, but the rest of you (not all) mistake power and greed for respect and love. (Don't ruffle any feathers arguing about that- it's just my opinion.)

Last but not least, I agree with the ese's and the brother that said blacks are loud, rude, rap over the tier, but 95% of you ese's online are the loud, rude, disrespectful one's.. and you exposing game on how the BIG HOMIES (La Eme) instill racism in you and move you like ponds. I take more pride in being black and being a man than the work I put in on brown pride and white boys.

I hate to be a hypocrite.. but it is not like we aren't surrounded my many of them here on this website... but we all have to asnwer to somebody when we die and it ain't gonna be so nice for the real riders.. the rest of you have nothing to worry about cause you faking the funk and never got your back dirty. We ALL have homies resting in peace; this is nothing to brag about. Action speak louder than words... 2006 Online Bangers ain't going to move nothing but a mouse. Ask your big homies, killers move in silence, respect goes along ways, kill one we kill two etc etc, I've had more RESPECT from Mexican Soldiers (18, V13, El Monte Flores, NS Bolen, SS Bolen, White Fence, Primera Flats etc etc ) than I see you giving "mayates" and "farmero's" online that you never seen before.

Enough of me.. in the name of Peace and Truth,

Anonymous said...

thug life bitch

Farmero 4 life -N- said...

-NORTE< NORTE- what u say NORTE NORTE that right -N-! waz up with this want 2-b- scrapaz claiming surnothing.just becouse thay came be us. becouse we are all flamed up i dont give a fuck straight up norteno and you now what we are throwing up. Nortern estrella scrapa we are way up. can't see us cant be us.

s said...

fuck busters snorteen lame ass! puro SUR13!!!

Anonymous said...

HIGHLAND PARQUE GANG ALL DAY! IT'S ALL ABOUT THAT PARK LIFE. FUKK NOODLES ALWAYS AND FOREVER.

YOURS TRULY BIG BAD H L"P 1UNO!