Thursday, January 04, 2007

Today's LA TIMES has a report on LA Mayor Tony V's request to the US DOJ for Federal money and prosecutorial resources to fight LA's gang problem. Our mayor wants the DOJ to prosecute gangs on Federal crimes and focus harder on the Mara Salavatrucha, a gang that the Times calls, "a gang from El Salvador." This is all well and good but the MS (aka MS-13, dutiful tax-payers and occasional shock troops for the Eme) isn't the heart of the problem. That's like starting a fight with a big guy but you decide to beat up his little brother. Additionally, the mayor wants more resources to prosecute racially motivated hate crimes committed by gangsters. After a decade of ignoring the issue, it's refreshing that somebody in power has at last acknowledged that the problem exists. The truth is, the DOJ was already on the case long before Tony V. became the city's chief executive. Three jumbo RICO cases in LA, Black Widow in NorCal, the AB trial down south, the Sana and Nite Owl prosecutions, the Vineland crackdown and the Avenues race murders. It's clear the Federal authorities have been doing their part.

This is not to say that local and State LE has been slacking. All those cases required a tremendous amount of talent from LAPD, LASD, CDC, OC and other departments.

And we haven't gotten where we are by not spending money. In the same article, Connie Rice states that we're spending $82 million a year on gang intervention programs that "are designed to fail." It can't help, of course, when Hector Marroquin is handed a million dollars under those programs and ends up buying a $600,000 nightclub. Rice also states that, "We need smart suppression, not blanket suppression." Rice is a smart lady. We just wish she'd offer some concrete ideas instead of generalities. Connie, if you're listening, please give us a usable definition of smart suppression. And councilman Herb Wesson is quoted. "It's about stopping kids before they join gangs." Absolutely correct. Herb, that's what the $82 million a year is for. Show us results.

The good news is that overall crime is down in LA, but gang crime is up 14%. Most of that is in Valley Bureau. There's a concrete reason the Valley is kicking up dust that has to do with certain moves taking place in County Jail. If Ms. Rice wants to exercise her smart versus blanket suppression concept, that might be a good place to start. Here's hoping for the best.


Gava Joe said...

Could someone shed some light on the "certain moves" in the County that contribute to the upsurge in crime in the Valley that Wally alludes to?

Anonymous said...

"The good news is that overall crime is down in LA, but gang crime is up 14%. Most of that is in Valley Bureau. There's a concrete reason the Valley is kicking up dust that has to do with certain moves taking place in County Jail."

Wallace, is that San Fernando shotcaller in county, flexing these "moves"? A growing dissidence, as to management style has been in the brew over at happy acres, between the old hats and the young'uns as to how the furniture is best arranged.


StillNoScript said...

Wally, what would local LE agencies propose for 'smart suppression', and would their proposal be legal and constitutional?

How about the conservative members of any city council in the L.A. region?

Seems to me you're only taking the more liberal members of local government to task. What about those council members of some of those more conservo OC cities? What are their suggestions, as gangs are certainly a problem in OC as well? (OC Half Breed has like a thousand newspaper clippings on OC including even EME related business, and we rarely discuss it)

What is the overall conservative solution to combating gangs in the SouthLand, and would they be legal and constitutional?

Are we sure that these pesky libs, at the end of the day, really are doing everything they can under the cloud of reality that the only thing that will make gang violence die down is an increase of living wage jobs in gang effected areas?

Thank you.

Anonymous said...

If stating the goals and needs of dealing with gang crime was the equivalent of achieving these goals, then we would all have a merry Christmas. The issue of achieving the goals of these local officials is, however, one that will require more than just local level resources and local level jurisdiction. The biggest issue is a Federal problem with the inane "war on drugs." Illicit drug sales provide the funding that empowers the turf gangs and allows for their expansion. No after school program or feel good social program is going to change the reality of financial compensation that can be achieved with selling drugs. At the state level the problem relates to the prison system. Until the prison system is reformed to stop overcrowding and to ensure the safety of the inmates, the need for joining a gang as a method of self-preservation will remain. The same holds true at the county level but good luck reforming the county system to ensure inmate safety. Move the "blue law" violators out of the prison and jail system, get rid of the dormitory housing system and implement some common sense rules on limiting inmate-to-inmate contact (which county has repeatedly failed to do) and perhaps we can consider it a start.

Gava Joe said...

Along with a cessation of ALL drug activity, Script. You forgot that one..... Uh Oh yeah , we've already declared "war" against that scourge. How's that goin? Not to seem the "sarcascateur" here but really your answer is only the dewclaws on the monster. It's been growing, metasticizing for generations. That Hector dude is the prior generation's manifest player. Unfortunately modern medicine has enabled these tired old gamers to continue past their expiration date. Hah! Maybe that's because they learned that the safest place to be is closer to the MAN...

don quixote said...

Back from the holiday "Party!" circuit. Lots of resolutions and promise's for the new year, but by the sound of the annual weapons arsenal blasting off on the Eastside of LA at midnight Ano Nuevo (machine gun fire, every kind of automatic, including about three or four bombblasts) I don't know??? Sounded like Iraq on Ramadan.
Street chisme is serious,lots of talk about the "final solution" contra los Mayates, lots of soldado's pounding thier shields etc; quien sabe sobre 2007?
Good to read some thought and opinion from the Wallista's. I agree with much and hope for more united thought finally from our political leaders and the Justice system in this regard. I only wish that there is a serious effort to combat the overwhelming and escalating violence instead of the usual career considerations by our powers that be. It's a disgrace when we can't send our young kids and grandkids down the street to the store or movies without worrying about them getting hit up and maybe injured or killed by gangsters who are in control of the streets.
Once in while I get comments that call me a cheerleader for the Sur Blue Tsunami that is sweeping the nation, and I can only reply that I'm just telling it like I see it all over the US and Mexico. Hey wake up! there winning the war of the hearts and minds of our kids!!
Mad Mexican says we need to enforce the death penalty more! I say "band aid" approach, you may keep a few killers from killing again but way too few, and too expensive,(I read where it's more expensive to execute someone than the cost for doing life in the Pinta. OMM says he's counseling youngsters and I say "keep it up" even if you save only a few it's positive.
"N" says we need to decriminalize drugs and I agree. Drugs are the mothers milk that enables organized crime to flourish and filling the joints up with non violent drug offenders is just a recruiting vehicle for the Carnals who are gaining power and using it in a very effective manner.
SNS is correct in his calling out the old "cop out" by people who keep up the "liberal bashing" as if that was the root of our gang problems, meanwhile the Pintas are filled up and overflowing due to the old "lock em up" tough on crime neanderthal attitude that hasn't worked except in filling the rosters of the gangs and organized crime groups tht we who live in the neighborhoods affected (everywhere now!) have to deal with.
And the 80 million $$ for gang prevention or whatever they call it is like a fart in a thunderstorm and will probably only exacerbate the problem as Wally points out.
We all need to get serious about this issue and liberals, conservatives, LE, Churches,Schools, the Media,(oh yea kids sitting around watching Playstation 3 drooling over the new "Drive By Kill" game)and if we need a couple of "Billion $$" to combat the gang influence so be it, (one B1 bomber costs that),
Some may disagree and claim that the solution is attacking the "Mero's" at the top but I contend that if there are no soldiers or recruits for an army then the generals don't go to war and eventually dry up and blow away!
Lots of caca on the agenda for 2007 and Wallys is the place to be!

Anonymous said...

StillNoScript said...

Wally, what would local LE agencies propose for 'smart suppression', and would their proposal be legal and constitutional?

Very well put script. How legal has all of the surveillance and info. gathering been on any of the cases mentioned? Do you really believe that LE did not break any rules in order to get what they needed in court????

My belief is that they could care less. They don't live in the barrios that they patrol. To them more money to fight gangs just means another payraise and better pention plans. They can keep on wasting their money fighting gangs and the end result will be the same as the results that they are getting on their war on drugs.
I can bet that Tony V. didn't travel to D.C by himself. Shit just doesn't work like that. I bet he had a few corporate lobbiest with him ready to get a govt handout.

Over all crime is down but GANG crime is up? Shit, crime is crime no need to make a whole new stat to justify the payraise. More than a Drug problem what we have is a Money problem. Everyone needs and wants money. If there are no fair paying jobs around then one will resort to whatever is available to make ends meet. As long as there is a demand for drugs there will be someone ready to sell them.
Gang prevention works, but not when the funding dries up, and when the LE acts like an enemy in the barrio.

Example. When LE was looking for that vato David Garcia for Burbank Officer Pavelkas murder they held a large part of Sun Valley under siege. They would swoop up 5 cars deep and detain and harass innocent kids that nothing to do with the Barrio. Shit, they didn't even fit a gang discription. They did this 24/7 till they cought that vato in Mexico. Big deal que~no. Well now many of those kids that they kept fucking with are now homeboys. That's what they call gang prevention?

Nice to see the comments section back up. Alrato.

StillNoScript said...

Almost every study ever done shows a decrease in gang violence being consistent with a rising median household income of any given area. Yet, it's amazing that this is rarely even considered whenever there's any kind of forum being held, at any level of government, on gang violence. Even the Democrats. You think they would be banging that drum louder than anyone. But, mums the word. Shows you who's really running this country, doesn't it? Everything gets blamed for gang violence, and I mean everything, except for those that are responsible for living wage jobs being reduced to slave wage jobs.

StillNoScript said...

By the way, I like N's solution, too, so long as it went along with a solution to poverty. Legalization would indeed take the black market away that gangs thrive on. But my only problem with that alone is that in my opinion, it doesn't address the real motivation to join a gang, financial survival and the illusion of power. If there aren't opportunities in the legitimate world close by, we would just see some other form of crime.

don quixote said...

On the subject of "Drugs" and it's impact on the proliferation of gangs and our Justice System (drugs being the eternal spring from which flows a majority of our current problems), I read where the "Federales" have gone into Tijuana to try and stop the drug related violence and corruption. The Mexican Feds confiscated all the firearms from the Tijuana Municipal Police as a precaution. The local TJ cops then refused to work without weapons and so there is a "Mexican Standoff" going on.
TJ is almost like a part of the US anymore as is much of the Border area and again the common denominator in all the problems stems from "Drugs" and the money and power it can deliver.
Very Interesting indeed.

wallista tribune said...
ROCKY attacks Mexican Border Fence.
MEXICO CITY (AP) -- Sylvester Stallone defended boxing, praised the hard work of Mexicans and dished out some jabs against U.S. plans to build a wall on its southern border, as the 60-year-old actor visited Mexico City to promote his sixth "Rocky" film.
Stallone said Thursday that "Rocky Balboa," the latest installment in the underdog saga of the Italian Stallion, shows an ordinary man fighting back against life's difficulties represented by his stronger ring opponents.

"It's like bullfighting or certain sports where you understand the brutality," he told reporters. "The thing is you have two men who are prepared; two men who have trained for this and know exactly what they're doing. It's not like two strong men attacking strangers."
In "Rocky Balboa," an MGM Pictures release, the aging scrapper is running a restaurant when a computer-simulated bout inspires him to put the gloves back on. In one scene, his character defends his restaurant's immigrant cooks and waiters against slanderous comments.

"I support Mexicans who work in my country," he said, adding that the United States depends on the hard work of Latinos to keep running.
In comments to Mexican media later, Stallone criticized plans to build 700 miles of fence along the border as an immigration-control measure.
Such a fence was "crazy" and "ridiculous," he said, arguing that nations should be able to interact without being divided by walls.
The Mexican government has railed against the fence with former President Vicente Fox comparing it to the Berlin Wall.

wallista tribune said...

Guardsmen overrun at the Border
They were'nt flingin' slim jims, thats for sure... Jan. 4, 2007
A U.S. Border Patrol entry Identification Team site was overrun Wednesday night along Arizona's border with Mexico.
According to the Border Patrol, an unknown number of gunmen attacked the site in the state's West Desert Region around 11 p.m. The site is manned by National Guardsmen. Those guardsmen were forced to retreat.
The Border Patrol says the incident occurred somewhere along the 120 mile section of the border between Nogales and Lukeville. The area is known as a drug corridor. Last year, 124-thousand pounds of illegal drugs were confiscated in this area.
The Border patrol says the attackers quickly retreated back into Mexico.

Anonymous said...

Overal crime being down while gang related crime being up is not just the case in L.A. This trend has been consistant across the State over the last several years. This corisponds with the artificial lowering of the population housed in C.D.C.R.D.J.J. Aka the former California Youth Authority during the same period.

Ten years ago largely due to the surge of gang violence in the late 1980's and early 1990's C.Y.A.'s population peaked at over 10,000 Wards, At this time youthful gang related crime was in a period of decline.

In 1997 the Legislature changed the funding scale greatly increasing the amount that the Counties had to pay to send a youthful offender to C.Y.A. This along with pressure from hug a thug special intrest groups and politicans, I.E. the Prison law Office and Sen. Gloria Romero has led to a current population of less then 3,000 Wards.

It's common sense 7,000+ 17 to 24 year old active gang members and youthful offenders being aloud to continue running amouk in the comunity drives up crime and benifits the organized gangs.

Anonymous said...

Don Quixote,
The new game, Drive to Kill, may actually reduce crime. From an economic standpoint the video game may actually be a substitute albeit not a perfect substitute. Instead of doing a drive by a kid or adult can just play the game. Maybe the guy who studies political economy at the UC can give some insight into the substitution effect.

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

Well I am glad to see Mayor V. doing an about face on gangs, I remember him from the old days when he was against gang injunctions and the police getting tough on gangs. He was viewed by many as being soft on gangs, including this Mad Mexican. But why is MS-13 getting all the attention, don't forget 18th (XV3) street, Florencia, White Fence and so many other gangs. I guess Mayor V. has changed after attending so many press conferences after young kids are killed in gang shootings in the streets of L.A.

Some articles about the Old Villaraigosa

I guess I am the only Mexican here who thinks we need to get tough on any low life criminal. Why are so many people so quick to criticize law enforcement, It is the low-lifes in the hood who are really terrorizing the neighborhoods. When are people in L.A. going to stand up for their right to able to walk the streets in their neighborhoods without fear and intimidation by gangs? This Mexican is not going to say the “Man” is harassing me and keeping me down because I am Mexican.

I have been harassed and intimidated when I am trying to help a young Latino to find is way out of gangs. Try to remove a young kid from the grasp of older low-life gang members if you want to see real harassment and death threats. No wonder I am so damn “MAD” when are we Latinos going to stand up and work for our own children, get of your house and bars and spend time with your kids.

I am not expecting law enforcement to eliminate all gang problems but it is just one of many things which need to be done.

1) Tough law enforcement against gangs or any criminal.
2) Additional after school programs for kids.
3) Parents need to be more involved with their kids.
4) Stop having more babies than you can afford to care for.
5) Better education and schools
6) No more Illegal Immigrants please

And the death penalty is only expensive because of all the crazy all ACLU people appealing the death penalty. I will provide the gun and bullets for free.

EL GUAPO said...

I'm kicking back with my ladyBut
still some vatos rolled upWhere you from
holmes?I'm thinking to myself don't act dumb
holmesCould pull the cuete cause I never leave home without
itBut would that prove anything? eh holmes I doubt
itVatos actin up I didn't say nothing but I
staredThey call me a chavala but hey I didn't
careTime to go on roll on catch em on the reboundSome
may call me a rankerSome might say that proves I'm
downOr got respect for the woman that I'm
withCause if she wasn't with me you know I'd do
it with the quicknessYou see I handle things in the right
wayIt's me and my ruca, no need to pull out the
fuscaCan't let them ruin my night so I drive off in
the rainShe said mijo you're the best and so I told
her the sameI grab her leg and tickle it as she laughs and
yells stopWhen I only stop to start all over againYou
must've put a spell on my mindYou're my genie and
my loverAnd i wish that you would make our time stand
stillChills and thrills is what you give me Everytime
that I'm next to youI'm so glad I found the best
with youA dream come true is me and youA
Pachuco's night doing what lovers like to doAnd mija
you're the only woman that can drive me crazyA
Pachucos night just me and my

Anonymous said...

The problem goes way deeper than putting more cops on the streets and tougher sentences. We all know this.

Gangs are only a problem in poor neighborhoods all over the County. For example, driving from Sereno (poor, working class) into Alhambra (Middle Class mostly Asian), are 2 different worlds, go a little further into San Gabriel (another working class neighborhood) and it's the same mess. This story repeated thousands of times across the country, all throughout it's history.

I think the solution is a 2 parter.
1) Better Educational opportunities in poor neighborhoods, more art and creative programs to stimulate the kids.
2) A stronger more organized movement in the calles against this repressive system. In the 60's when the Chicano movement was flourishing, gang activity & recruitment showed signs of dropping.

We need more cultural pride (not supremacy). We need youngsters to understand that not only the Cops are terrorizing our neighborhoods, but so are gangs.

I cut the shit out when I was about 20, because an elder asked me how my community felt about me. I was semi-mature enough to realize that my neighbors, kids, elders lived in fear of US. That was a huge wake up call.

We need to stop terrorizing eachother.

Hopefully the mayor will be succesfull in his push for education. But also, if he's pushing for more Cops, than there must be some accountability for the brutality and bullying.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Ten years ago largely due to the surge of gang violence in the late 1980's and early 1990's C.Y.A.'s population peaked at over 10,000 Wards, At this time youthful gang related crime was in a period of decline.

You are mistaken as to the Y.A funding. Y.A was losing their funding way before 97', they lost most of it in 89' 90' and 91'. At that time Y.A was closing down their rehabiltation programs. They stopped giving any kind of higher education to wards that wanted to really change. High school diploma, GED and that was it, when before they would offer some collage level degrees. They also closed down most of their fire camps even though those camps had always showed good results. Y.A changed and was no longer what it was when it was first created when their goal was rehabilitation. While fighting for their share of the pie, the C.Y.A became a warehouse for young offenders. The change in Legislature in 97' was a result of the abusive measures that C.Y.A personal had implemented on the wards. Don't you think that those 17 to 24 year old gang members should commit a crime before you lock them up?? You shouldn't give up on youngsters so easy.

And just in case you were not aware, one of the reasons that gang crime went down in the early 90s'was not because more youth offenders got locked up. One of the main reasons was that there were peace treaties in affect. The SFV truce went on for a little over a year in which no one was killed.

Anonymous said...

The pachucos were Latino street rebels of the 1940s who innovated a style and attitude that expressed their defiance of mainstream America. Dressed to kill in zoot suits and with pompadour haircuts they hung out on the streets of East Los Angeles, speaking their own language and asserting their difference from everyone around them. They were the first subcultural group to exhibit their rebellion by display—through their clothing and behavior on the street. Their unique brand of defiance opened up an avenue of rebellion which was later followed by youth cultures in genres such as rock and roll.

The pachucos were second generation Mexican-American youths who lived in the barrios of East Los Angeles during the years of World War II. They were branded "delinquents" by the Los Angeles Police Department, and held responsible for the wave of juvenile crime that was sweeping the city at the time. The pachucos also incurred the wrath of their Mexican elders by their "degenerate" behavior of draft-dodging, marijuana-smoking, and their foppish attention to their clothes.

The style they sported was the zoot suit: a long drape jacket that reached to the knees and high waisted trousers that were baggy on the leg but tapered at the ankle. The suit was worn with a very long key chain and often a crucifix or a medallion over the tie. The hairdo to go with the look was the pompadour, a relatively long hair cut for men, worn greased into a quiff at the front and combed into a duck's tail at the back. In the hair the pachucos kept their fileros (flick knives), the thickness of the hair style providing a secure hiding place for weapons. Distinctive tattoos, such as the Virgin of Guadalupe, where also part of the pachuco look. Their female counterparts, the pachucas, had their own dress code which consisted of short tight skirts, flimsy blouses, dramatic makeup, and longer pompadour hairdos.

The name "pachuco" is of uncertain origin but is believed to be derived from the word "Pachuca," a town in east Central Mexico. The pachucos spoke a hybrid slang called "Calo," derived from the gypsy tongue. The word "Chicano"—a politicized term of self-definition for Mexican Americans—is itself a Calo word. Music was also an important ingredient in the scene, and much of the pachuco lifestyle revolved around the dance halls where they would go to dance and listen to swing bands. A bandleader called Don Tosti had a hit with a song called "Pachuco Boogie," a big band number with lyrics in Calo.
Al rato niƱos bonitos.


Anonymous said...

"I'm kicking back with my lady But
still some vatos rolled up Where you from holmes?I'm thinking to myself don't act dumb holmes Could pull the cuete cause I never leave home without it But would that prove anything? eh holmes I doubt
it Vatos actin up I didn't say nothing but I staredT hey call me a chavala but hey I didn't
care Time to go on roll on catch em on the rebound"

It seems to me like "S" is back but this time he has a girlfriend and a different attitude.

Alot of this violence and crime committed by the chavalones is because of the upsurge in crystal meth usage. It seems like every Tom, Dick, and Harry are snorting, smoking or fixing that stuff. The crystal meth is really fucking up our youth, I work in a position where I see firsthand what that pedo does to these youngsters and oldsters alike, its 100 times worse than heroin, and I would even venture to say thats its worse then PCP. But an effecient Police force could really put a dent in crime, take El Monte for instance, no more hookers on Garvey, you cant score in the Klingermans, Medina Court, there is no more Hicks camp, and all the old tecatos and "OG" gang- bangers are at the methadone clinic, dead, or in jail. Its nothing like it was in the 70's, 80's and early 90's. Chief Ken Weldon might be a stinkin drunk, but him and his police dept. have squashed alot of the crime and are trying to make El Monte friendly again and doing a good job of it.

Anonymous said...

I had heard that the word PACHUCO came from the tejano Raza. CHUCO is the nickname for EL PASO TX. I heard it said that they would ask " where are you going" and the answer would be "PA-CHUCO" and it just sort of stuck.
Plus at that time it was not only the East LOS Raza that ZootZuited, all the Raza in the southwest did. An Elder used to give us some real history lessons about the different Barrios that were around back then. How they partied together, and how some were starting their storied feuds. The funny part for me was when he discribed what the SFV looked like back then. Orange orchards and dusty roads he said. But he also said that he went to some very good bolos in San Fernando where the ladies were some of the best looking ones around. I guess somethings never change.

I agree about the meth. That shit is really messing things up. But I think that most meth violence is commited on other meth users. I mean these fools aren't smoking that shit and running off and blasting someone. These punks lock themselves up and tweak with anyone that is into the same as them. Those punks aren't thinking about their Barrio, they're thinking about they're high. F- Them most of those fools are no good anyways. They turn on their homeboys everyday and are quickly making many of the yards no-good. Besides if the Governt. really wanted to stop the epidemic they would cut off the supply to the main ingredient in meth. That shit is made in huge labs in India and shipped around the world "to be used in cough medicines". Cut that off and you will have a huge drop in meth use cause meth without that ingredient is just not the same.

Anonymous said...

Just in case you thought "Whitey" did NOT hear or notice about gang violence in L.A.

This Latino Was Never in a Gang

Gava Joe said...

Ca'nt tolerate a tweaker. They carry the smell of meth along with the stench of too many frajos and whatever that crusty shit is that forms around their mouths. Then they approach you with the strictest mindset in an effort to convey their fragmented thoughts and the brain is popping cells so fast that you can see the shrapnel fly off that last thought and they're left stuttering like a victim of a roadside blast.
My wife's a high school teacher, and Kansas has'nt been spared the meth epidemic. Her words: "The saddest thing about looking into the eyes of a kid with meth problems is that they have a hopeless kind of panic in there, and that you can only let it run its course, because you're not a cop, you're not their parent. You're just their educator"..
My thoughts from the 80s was that meth would eventually die off. It never was a drug of any comfort that I could see, but it has'nt happened. The problem lies deeper my friends..

StillNoScript said...

"It's common sense 7,000+ 17 to 24 year old active gang members and youthful offenders being aloud to continue running amouk in the comunity drives up crime and benifits the organized gangs."

It is, indeed. But it would be criminal stupidity to think that's the only reason.

StillNoScript said...

Mad Mexican,

Gang violence was down in the 1990s, and so was overall crime in America. Why not use whatever we were doing then as a model for today? Why don't we just start at better jobs, and smart law enforcement, and brainstorm from there? For some reason though, people (mostly conservatives) just don't want to use a 1990s model. They want to do it their way or no way at all. Many of them even want to toss the constitution out the window (makes me wonder if you're one of them, considering your shot at the ACLU).

I get this feeling that some people in high places are using gang violence as a red herring to get Americans to support something else their pushing for. Gava Joe, you're good at conspiracies and/or putting them to rest, take mine and do what you want with it. I'm all ears...or eyes in this casse.

Anonymous said...

TIJUANA, Mexico – Mexico is sending more than 3,000 soldiers and federal police officers to fight drug gangs in the violent border city of Tijuana, the latest offensive by President Felipe Calderon who has vowed to crack down on organized crime.

This reminds of the movie "Traffic" where the General in charge of army troops sent into Tijuana is working for
a rival drug cartel of the one already established in Tijuana. It will be interseting to read about the results if any.
Maybe we need the National Guard in Los Angels, just like after the last riots?

Anonymous said...

To StillNoScript (aka Still No Conspiracy),

I wonder if President Bush is master-minding the growth of gangs Los Angeles. Is Bush sending additional spray paint cans to L.A. so young gangsters can put up gang graffiti and rival gangs can cross it out to start up gangs wars. Or is he working with the coca growers in Colombia and Brazil and giving them free tractors so they may cultivate their crops faster. Or maybe Bush is really another member of the Arellano Felix family who is providing safe passage of drugs from Mexico into the USA. Or maybe he is sponsoring Latino musicians to produce more gangster rap C.D.s to glamorize gangs and induce more young Latinos. (Heavy sarcasm alert)

I will start by saying I am not a radical conservative or crazy liberal. I believe in giving women the right to abortions and giving murderous low-lifes the death penalty. I just do not understand why more people are not concerned about the rights of the average honest working person in a barrio. If a gang has the average person scared to walk from their home to the corner store or have their kids play on the streets in the evening, who should I defend? I would invite you to go take an evening walk behind the new Belmont high school in L.A. and see how safe you feel. I tutor two kids who live in the area bounded by Temple Ave. and the new Belmont High School. They can not walk around their own house with out being threatened and harassed by diamond street gang members, I have to drop them off in front of their house and they run into their home. So forgive me if I do not cry if the police get tough with these low-life thugs and violate their right to gang bang.

As far as high paying jobs this is an issue which is years in the making. Back in the 60 & 70’s there were more high-paying union jobs. But when the unions were squeezing large corporations for high salaries and benefits many industries went bust or had to find cheaper labor. I used to work at Kaiser Steel in Fontana back in the early 70’s. The unions were very powerful and workers were stealing the company blind. So the steel industries went over-seas where labor was cheaper and they did not have strict environmental restrictions. Also other countries became competitive with American companies, remember when cars, televisions and radios from Japan were considered junk? And the Japanese government wisely funded many companies until they became competitive. Now there are virtually no American manufactures of consumer electronics. We as consumers continued to purchase cheaper foreign products which eliminated many manufacturing jobs here in the USA. Don’t forget the advent of computers used for industrial automation, this has also eliminated many jobs (this is what I do). And this trend continues as we use engineers, programmers, accountants, telephone service personnel and other labor from India and other low wage countries. And yes there are greedy corporate CEO and CFO who reward themselves by the millions, but we as consumers need to quit buying so much of their junk and invest in real-estate or other real value goods such as your own business.

Think global economics;

So if the rich white guy is trying to oppress you it might be because of human nature. Think back to the time of the Egyptian kings and Pharaohs they also exploited the poor and un-educated. Were the Egyptians Kings conspirators or just greedy bastards?

When was crime really down in Los Angeles, I could only find national
statistics which do not show a decrease in crime in the 90's.

The Mad Mexican

Anonymous said...

the violence in the valle has nothing to do with anything going on in the county,gangbaning is just the thing to do out here,that's all.there's a lot of heavy recruiting going on.

Anonymous said...

The Mad Mexican for president

Anonymous said...

This reminds of the movie "Traffic" where the General in charge of army troops sent into Tijuana is working for
a rival drug cartel of the one already established in Tijuana. It will be interseting to read about the results if any.
Maybe we need the National Guard in Los Angels, just like after the last riots?



Gava Joe said...



H.R. sure makes a good point there.The CIA has been the instigators of more masa internationally than all the rebels and contras combined. I'm sure as time passes there'll be an "expose" as to their interests in the opium crops that STILL run undisturbed out of Afghanistan. I mean my God! The US achieved regime change in that small impoverished country. Granted it looks to be only temporary as the Taliban seems to be very much undead and is regrouping on Pakistan's borders, but amid all this warfare the donkeys that haul the raw opium through those mtn passes are going strong (and stronger to believe other sources).The only threat to the Afghani opium market is the competition from Mexican poppies!
A common excuse for US intervention or outright declaration of war is to "protect the US interests" and yet our leaders (military and political) turn a blind eye to a clearcut source of decline in our country. That being the production of heroin.. They did it in Viet Nam with the CIA's Air America and they're doing it as we speak in Afghanistan.

StillNoScript said...

Mad Mexican, I didn't say that I could prove there's a conspiracy to keep gang violence going. Just threw the idea out there. And, did I ever say Bush was involved? If there were some high ranking people in the Pentagon or the business sector (pick the prison industry) plotting to keep the pot stirred in urban America for their own long term gain, do you really think they would let that fucktard in chief in on it? Like Iraq, they just tell him what to say. Bush a spokesperson, nothing more. I don't accuse Bush of being anything but a powerful man's son, because at the end of the day that's all he is and all he ever be remembered for. The fact that you think so highly of him combined with the fact that you work with kids scares me almost as much as any gang members recruiting kids.

I don't know where I got the impression that gang violence and overall crime was down in the 1990s. Is it better or worse than now? Was the Belmont area safer or less safe in the 19990s than it is today? In fact, will somebody tell me one place in Los Angeles that was more dangerous in, say, 1998 than today, 2007?

And, found your take on the economy interesting. Some good points yet I detected a little bit of conservative, pro business idealism as well. I don't know if unions are the answer. It was Clinton that signed NAFTA and knew that unions would take a hit for it (Wal MArt is to the Clintons what Oil is to the Bushes, that's common knowledge, and WalMart is a union fucking killer), but Clinton did propose funding for job training and vocational education for adults. Who knows rather or not it would have panned out if Gore were elected in '00. Well, it probably would have, but then again the Taliban would have taken over the United States and it wouldn't have mattered anyhow, right?

StillNoScript said...


Was Pocoima safer or more dangerous 10 years ago than today? Gotta be one or the other.

Anonymous 1 said...

Anonymous 3:24 said " You are mistaken as to Y.A. funding. Way before 97 they lost most of it in 89' 90' and 91.At that time Y.A. was closing down their rehabilation programs." Your time line is incorrect, Most of the programs you cite that were shut down occured between 2001-2004 as the population declined. During this time the male portion of Ventura that offered college courses was closed, The consveration camps at Mt Boulin,Washington Ridge and the traning center at Preston were shut down along with numerous industrial arts classes and drug treatment programs.

In fact in the early and mid 1990s there were numerous treatment programs created. During this era Karl Holton was converted to a drug treatment facility, It was shut down around 2001 or 2002. I can also recall the very costly Lead boot camp program at Preston.

I don't recall the bill number or author of the legislation that implimented the sliding scale, However it was brought about to save the state money by discouraging the Counties from inapropriatly sending less serious offenders to C.Y.A. at the time it cost about $60,000 per year to house a Ward.

Scriptnoscript, I agree with your comment. There are as many factors that effect the crime rate as there are solutions to bring it down.

Anonymous said...

stillnoscript, pacoima is far more dangerous now because pacoima worst enemy is pacoima itself.yes,there is plenty of anomosity against sanfer and vineland,the long time rival's will alway's be there but vato's from pacoima don't pay much attention to them these day's ,they're to busy banging on each other!too much blood has been spilled over the year's.not even a so called ceace fire a few month's ago can slow thing's down.

Anonymous said...

To StillNoConpiracy,

I don't remember me saying Bush was a great president or me being a supporter of the BushMan. (Re-read the sarcasm alert)

As far as my ideas on good jobs and business I was merely trying to point out it is a very complex issue. And yes I am pro-business if I own the business. The consumer is the one who has empowered large corporations by buying their products, we as consumers buy from large corporate retailers such as Home Depot rather than the local hardware store. I personally buy my groceries from my local Mercado which has better prices than the large corporate grocer. But the local Mercado does not have union employees such as the corporate grocers, so am I a union buster or just want cheap produce? I also prefer to dine-out at family owned restaurants. The only thing I know for sure is that if we continue to buy cheap products made overseas, we will not have jobs to buy even the cheapest Taiwan-made DVD player.

And you should be very scared of me tutoring young Latino kids. I teach them some very dangerous subjects such as Algebra, Physics, Chemistry, Computer Science and Small Business Management. I also take then to meet other small business owners. I show them examples of people who stared their own small business with nothing but education, desire and hard work. I know this is a concept many people fear. Showing young Latinos positive role models who have succeeded in life in spite of many obstacles placed in front of them. I know there are many who would prefer me to tell them you cannot succeed in life because of where you started in life and you always be a victim of the government and the Man. So Old Cholos beware the "Mad Mexican" will try his best to show your kid examples of Latinos who have college educations, were never in a gang and worked there way out of the Barrio.

Mad Mexican

Anonymous said...

SNL, N etc, here's a pretty interesting article from today's L.A Times. I know it may be hard for SNL to believe some of it, but I think a few of us have been saying what this women says for a while now on here.

Roots of Latino/black anger
Longtime prejudices, not economic rivalry, fuel tensions.
By Tanya K. Hernandez, Tanya K. Hernandez is a professor of law at Rutgers University Law School.
January 7, 2007

THE ACRIMONIOUS relationship between Latinos and African Americans in Los Angeles is growing hard to ignore. Although last weekend's black-versus-Latino race riot at Chino state prison is unfortunately not an aberration, the Dec. 15 murder in the Harbor Gateway neighborhood of Cheryl Green, a 14-year-old African American, allegedly by members of a Latino gang, was shocking.

Yet there was nothing really new about it. Rather, the murder was a manifestation of an increasingly common trend: Latino ethnic cleansing of African Americans from multiracial neighborhoods. Just last August, federal prosecutors convicted four Latino gang members of engaging in a six-year conspiracy to assault and murder African Americans in Highland Park. During the trial, prosecutors demonstrated that African American residents (with no gang ties at all) were being terrorized in an effort to force them out of a neighborhood now perceived as Latino.

For example, one African American resident was murdered by Latino gang members as he looked for a parking space near his Highland Park home. In another case, a woman was knocked off her bicycle and her husband was threatened with a box cutter by one of the defendants, who said, "You niggers have been here long enough."

At first blush, it may be mystifying why such animosity exists between two ethnic groups that share so many of the same socioeconomic deprivations. Over the years, the hostility has been explained as a natural reaction to competition for blue-collar jobs in a tight labor market, or as the result of turf battles and cultural disputes in changing neighborhoods. Others have suggested that perhaps Latinos have simply been adept at learning the U.S. lesson of anti-black racism, or that perhaps black Americans are resentful at having the benefits of the civil rights movement extended to Latinos.

Although there may be a degree of truth to some or all of these explanations, they are insufficient to explain the extremity of the ethnic violence.

Over the years, there's also been a tendency on the part of observers to blame the conflict more on African Americans (who are often portrayed as the aggressors) than on Latinos. But although it's certainly true that there's plenty of blame to go around, it's important not to ignore the effect of Latino culture and history in fueling the rift.

The fact is that racism — and anti-black racism in particular — is a pervasive and historically entrenched reality of life in Latin America and the Caribbean. More than 90% of the approximately 10 million enslaved Africans brought to the Americas were taken to Latin America and the Caribbean (by the French, Spanish and British, primarily), whereas only 4.6% were brought to the United States. By 1793, colonial Mexico had a population of 370,000 Africans (and descendants of Africans) — the largest concentration in all of Spanish America.

The legacy of the slave period in Latin America and the Caribbean is similar to that in the United States: Having lighter skin and European features increases the chances of socioeconomic opportunity, while having darker skin and African features severely limits social mobility.

White supremacy is deeply ingrained in Latin America and continues into the present. In Mexico, for instance, citizens of African descent (who are estimated to make up 1% of the population) report that they regularly experience racial harassment at the hands of local and state police, according to recent studies by Antonieta Gimeno, then of Mount Holyoke College, and Sagrario Cruz-Carretero of the University of Veracruz.

Mexican public discourse reflects the hostility toward blackness; consider such common phrases as "getting black" to denote getting angry, and "a supper of blacks" to describe a riotous gathering of people. Similarly, the word "black" is often used to mean "ugly." It is not surprising that Mexicans who have been surveyed indicate a disinclination to marry darker-skinned partners, as reported in a 2001 study by Bobby Vaughn, an anthropology professor at Notre Dame de Namur University.

Anti-black sentiment also manifests itself in Mexican politics. During the 2001 elections, for instance, Lazaro Cardenas, a candidate for governor of the state of Michoacan, is believed to have lost substantial support among voters for having an Afro Cuban wife. Even though Cardenas had great name recognition (as the grandson of Mexico's most popular president), he only won by 5 percentage points — largely because of the anti-black platform of his opponent, Alfredo Anaya, who said that "there is a great feeling that we want to be governed by our own race, by our own people."

Given this, it should not be surprising that migrants from Mexico and other areas of Latin America and the Caribbean arrive in the U.S. carrying the baggage of racism. Nor that this facet of Latino culture is in turn transmitted, to some degree, to younger generations along with all other manifestations of the culture.

The sociological concept of "social distance" measures the unease one ethnic or racial group has for interacting with another. Social science studies of Latino racial attitudes often indicate a preference for maintaining social distance from African Americans. And although the social distance level is largest for recent immigrants, more established communities of Latinos in the United States also show a marked social distance from African Americans.

For instance, in University of Houston sociologist Tatcho Mindiola's 2002 survey of 600 Latinos in Houston (two-thirds of whom were Mexican, the remainder Salvadoran and Colombian) and 600 African Americans, the African Americans had substantially more positive views of Latinos than Latinos had of African Americans. Although a slim majority of the U.S.-born Latinos used positive identifiers when describing African Americans, only a minority of the foreign-born Latinos did so. One typical foreign-born Latino respondent stated: "I just don't trust them…. The men, especially, all use drugs, and they all carry guns."

This same study found that 46% of Latino immigrants who lived in residential neighborhoods with African Americans reported almost no interaction with them.

The social distance of Latinos from African Americans is consistently reflected in Latino responses to survey questions. In a 2000 study of residential segregation, Camille Zubrinsky Charles, a sociology professor at the University of Pennsylvania, found that Latinos were more likely to reject African Americans as neighbors than they were to reject members of other racial groups. In addition, in the 1999-2000 Lilly Survey of American Attitudes and Friendships, Latinos identified African Americans as their least desirable marriage partners, whereas African Americans proved to be more accepting of intermarriage with Latinos.

Ironically, African Americans, who are often depicted as being averse to coalition-building with Latinos, have repeatedly demonstrated in their survey responses that they feel less hostility toward Latinos than Latinos feel toward them.

Although some commentators have attributed the Latino hostility to African Americans to the stress of competition in the job market, a 1996 sociological study of racial group competition suggests otherwise. In a study of 477 Latinos from the 1992 Los Angeles County Social Survey, professors Lawrence Bobo, then of Harvard, and Vincent Hutchings of the University of Michigan found that underlying prejudices and existing animosities contribute to the perception that African Americans pose an economic threat — not the other way around.

It is certainly true that the acrimony between African Americans and Latinos cannot be resolved until both sides address their own unconscious biases about one another. But it would be a mistake to ignore the Latino side of the equation as some observers have done — particularly now, when the recent violence in Los Angeles has involved Latinos targeting peaceful African American citizens.

This conflict cannot be sloughed off as simply another generation of ethnic group competition in the United States (like the familiar rivalries between Irish, Italians and Jews in the early part of the last century). Rather, as the violence grows, the "diasporic" origins of the anti-black sentiment — the entrenched anti-black prejudice among Latinos that exists not just in the United States but across the Americas — will need to be directly confronted.


Anonymous said...

I can't speak for L.A areas but I know here in OC that Santa Ana had a much, much higher gang murder rate during the 90's, it hit it's peek during the mid 90's. That doesn't mean that higher rates of other crime doesn't go on but the murder rate is down for sure.


don quixote said...

Old Mad Mexican, I commend you for your efforts in mentoring some of our young kids and I hope your succesful in your endeavors as we need more people like yourself who are giving thier time and energy.
Our problems though are not going to be solved by a few individuals alone but by a group (our society) effort that has the resources (money!) and the will and vision to turn around our descent into the dark ages.
The pro-business, trickle down theory's of the social Darwinist economist's of the last 30 years has been a Social disaster of historic proportions ( except for the top few percent of the population who have accrued wealth beyond any acceptable or responsible democratic standards) When a Co. CEO makes over 400 times the salary of his workers (which is a standard figure now in corporate AMerica) and most Americans are scuffling to make ends meet, average AMerican family $7,000 to $8,000.00 in credit card debt, 40% with no medical insurance, it's time for a rethinking of what the hell is going on and how we can change our country back into a democracy instead of a Monopoly Capitalist Fascist Juggernaught.
OMM you are obviously a believer in free enterprise and small business opportunity as I am (have owned my own business for over 20 years) but you make some anti union remarks that I must take exception to.

don quicote said...

OMM about your seeming anti union comments I can only speak from years of experience with the labor union movement and how it's demise due to anti union laws such as "Taft Hartley" and corporate greed are greatly to blame for the demise of our cities and the resulting crime, poverty, gangs, that followed. In the construction industry the unions with private Industry developed not only "Apprenticeship schools" and programs that trained young workers in the trades but guaranteed saftey, professionalism in workmanship and skills, a union hall hiring center that provided skilled workers for the Construction Companys, and also good union wages and benefits. I went through these programs and it was hard work but we had protection from being ripped off by unscrupulous companys. And I don't want to hear any bullshit about dogging it or taking advantage of the company! We worked our asses off!
Same thing in my old Lincoln Hts Neighborhood where there were many good Union jobs for guys who didn't have a formal education. All our fathers would walk to work or take the streetcar to Pabst Blue Ribbon Brewery, Southern Pacific Ralilroads, Barbara Ann,4S, Log Cabin, Dolly Madison, Bakeries, ITT Canon Electric,Price Pfsister Foundry, Welches Laundry,Carnation Dairy, and on and on. Good Union jobs that enabled most people to take care of thier families with good wages, medical care, retirement benefits, allowed people to educate thier kids most of who had Mom's at home along with extended families (didn't have Mom working her ass off to help pay rent!) And these guys worked there for years as good hard working loyal employees who developed close relationships with neighbors and kids who grew up there. Sure it was a tough working class area with a lot of gangs even then but totally different from today. Most of the vatos went into the Service and got married by the time they were 20 or 21. These companys in the name of almighty profit left these inter city areas only cause they were able to and to increase profit and break the unions.
Now the chickens are comming home to roost and these same cocksuckers are leaving the US cause they are able to increase profits and have no loyalty to the US citizen.
So OMM, as you I am pro business but also anti Monopoly Capitalist and pro US. These ecomomic problems are a direct cause of all our problems including gangs, drugs, illegal immigration, health care, poor educational institutions, overcrowding jails, and the moral erosion of our so called "Leaders".

Anonymous said...

OC -

Excellent post. The findings noted in the article are not a surprise. Not one bit. Race based preference and/or discrimination is often described solely as whites preferring whites and being disparaging of other races. This is obviously fallacious. Anybody that has spent any amount of time with people of all races sees individuals of all races that exhibit this same "self" association and preference coupled with a dislike (to one degree or another) of those of other races. It certainly is the egalitarian amongst us that is "colorblind" and the saint that decries racism in all its forms (including race based preferences and what some refer to as reverse racism, but which is reality is just plain racism with the subject and object switched).

The findings of this article remind me of those in the following (which I have posted previously):

While the authors rudely had their preconceived notion that new Latino immigrants were "taught" racism against blacks by southern whites, anybody living in the real world would understand why the finding that new Latino immigrants (statistically speaking) would harbor racist views against blacks. Oddly enough, what I have seen is that first generation immigrants whether they be from Mexico, India, China, Korea or even Africa have a more defined negative view of American blacks than do the children of these immigrants or their descendants (excluding of course... those that have taken the hyper race conscious mentality of our prison systems).

Anonymous said...

To Don Q and others,

I agree that all the problems of our society such as gangs, lack of education and poverty cannot be solved by a few individuals. But the main point I want make is; if we Latinos sit around waiting for our government to solve these problems we may be waiting for a hell of a long time. So I would like to see more people take responsibility for their own kids. I just get tired of hearing about how the government is not taking care of us and is only taking advantage of us. If we want to see change we As Latinos need to get an education in political science and government and be part of government.
And I am not so quick to say that “cops are terrorizing our neighborhoods, but so are gangs”, as other people who post here. (Must be the ex-thugs talking)

I never said I was for or against unions I was merely stating what I have seen happen to unions in the past. I was talking about Kaiser Steel where the workers DID take advantage of the company. I saw people sleeping, gambling and drunk on the job every day. At Kaiser it would take three men 8 hours to change a 10hp motor, which I can do by myself in 2hours. There was a funny quote from Henry J. Kaiser he was asked how many people worked for him and his answer was "about 1/2 work".

And I definitely do not believe in any kind of trickle down economics where the wealthy will miraculously help the poor. If you read my previous post I was just giving examples of how humans appear to be greedy by nature and it is not just a USA conspiracy that the rich whites take advantage of the poor Mexicans. This has been happening since the beginning of time. Mexico is infamous for greed and corruption, against other Mexicans, you know the saying “La Mordida”

And yes our economy and distribution of wealth is changing. I can remember when large construction contracts had “union labor only” clauses. As little as ten years ago most large construction jobs I worked around had only union painters, carpenters, electricians and plumbers. Now the large construction companies can hire small independent contractors who do NOT use union labor. I also see plenty of construction jobs where there are many illegal aliens working as painters, carpenters, masons, plumbers and laborers. So I see first hand how we are losing many high paying union jobs in the USA. Also remember there are fewer jobs today due to factory automation, competition with foreign companies, foreign workers, corporate greed and many other unknown reasons to me.

And I also know first hand how a college graduate today cannot afford to buy a house now as I did back in 1977 when I graduated from college. So a painter or plumber or any construction trade worker is really screwed if he wants to buy a house on today’s non union wages. You know white folks have also been greatly affected by loss of union jobs. But why are more Latinos in gangs than whites? I think there are many other factors to gangs like parents who keep teaching this shit to their kids. And many others factors which I do not claim to know or understand.

Don Q, don’t get mad like this Mad Mexican you might also get an ulcer. We would need to have many discussions and several Coronas to thoroughly discuss this issue.

Now back to Mayor V.;
I am glad he is making gangs a big priority. I just do not understand why people of L.A. are opposed to his takeover of schools. The schools in L.A are the worst performing school in California.

And Thanks again Wally for providing this forum to read, write, learn, vent and rant !!!

Mad Mexican

Anonymous said...

By 1793, colonial Mexico had a population of 370,000 Africans (and descendants of Africans) — the largest concentration in all of Spanish America.

WRONG info!

StillNoScript said...

Mad Mexican,

It was you who accused me of being the Bush conspiracy theorist, when I never mentioned his name. Which is what gave me the impression that it's you who thinks highly of him. I think nothing more of him than what he is, a spoiled prick who's dumber than a fucking rock. As far as some of the prison industry people who obviously profit well off of gang violence and any corrupted military officials allowing overseas crack slangers to sell in American ghettos in exchange for whatever? Well, they sure aren't issuing the spray paint cans but if they do exist you'd better believe that to some degree they're in the shit and stirring up the pot. Again, take a second look at those prisons.

I don't know why you're continuously baiting me into a political discussion with these anti-union sermons. I don't give a shit, frankly. Unions or no unions, if we have a govt. that at least puts the working people somewhere higher than what the government has in the past few years than I'm game. I don't study business so I couldn't debate you on it if I wanted to. Also, you're insistance on calling me 'stillnoconspiracy' only proves that I'm somehow offending you by merely bringing up the possibility that, jesus christ, some asshole in our crooked assed government just might be looking the other way or even throwing some gas on the fire in urban america for his own business or political gain. I understand your position and your responsibility to teach children to be responsible for their own actions and to not blame their failures on others, but to teach children that there's no possible way there could be a conspiracy against minorities because well, by golly, you just say so, is only going to insult their intellegence when they can clearly see that the gavacho kids in Diamond Bar are only getting probation for marijuana possession while their primo got one year at YA.

OC, welcome back. And, thanks for your input on, well, OC. But you should also understand that I...'snl'.. (is my name Saturday Night Live??? lol), never said that Blacks and Mexicans were, if I may paraphrase N, standing in a circle and singing Kumbaya when all of a sudden the EME ordered a green light on Blacks. I know Blacks and Mexicans have problems. I grew up in a city with plenty of Blacks and Mexicans and they had problems when I was growing up, too. I didn't learn the word 'mayate' from this blog, or from watching American Me, let's put it that way. The relationship between a lot of Norteno gangs in the 80s and early '90s was similar to that of Surenos and Blacks before this madness began a few years ago. They were cool, but they didn't trust each other and every now and then, the shit jumped off.

But, OC, I really do believe the recent rash of violence is fueled by a drug war as well as the already existant animosity between Black and Brown in L.A.

Pacoimero sais that Pocoima is worse today than it was in the '90s. OC sais the opposite of OC. So, it's a tie. Anyone else want to offer their statistics on any particular part of L.A., or the country, for that matter that demonstrates their area is safer today than it was a decade ago? I was always under the impression that violent crime was down in the 1990s, particularly when it came to gang violence. Maybe I was wrong, allthough I was right about Pacoima! Bill Clinton was able to save Pacoima...but only for a while, as Pacoimero pointed out.

Anonymous said...

As for the calles I'd have to say that the violence was worse in the late 80s and early 90s(The start of a new era in gangbanging).Many new Barrios had busted out and tansformed gangbanging to the level that we now see. There have always been ups and downs in the level of gang crime. What we are seeing now in the east SFV is a big up surge due to many factors. How to combat this is the billion dollar question. I for one am in the same camp as HUERO.
He stated.......
I think the solution is a 2 parter.
1) Better Educational opportunities in poor neighborhoods, more art and creative programs to stimulate the kids.
2) A stronger more organized movement in the calles against this repressive system. In the 60's when the Chicano movement was flourishing, gang activity & recruitment showed signs of dropping.
We need more cultural pride (not supremacy). We need youngsters to understand that not only the Cops are terrorizing our neighborhoods, but so are gangs.

The homie put it down firme! If there is one thing that youngsters on the verge of joining a barrio would react to is cultural pride. The only problem is that the government would stomp on any new movement like they did in the 60s and 70s. Any gang student on this blog who has seen any declassified papers on the EME will see this for themselves. The carnales were considered a bigger threat by the FBI when it was believed that they might have a "separatist" ideology. A criminal ideology can be contained but a "separatist" one needs to be eliminated at all costs. A bigger threat to the establishment than organized gangs is an organized and active group of citizens that demands their rights. If you are a minority and demand these things you will qualify as a "separatist". No hand outs needed OMM just truly equal rights and equal schooling. Just a few days back it was revealed that the LAUSD spends more money on their good schools (that happen to be in good areas of town) than on underperforming schools that needed all the help they could get. As an educator that has to burn you up. I know that it got me very pissed, and not because I didn't already know but because it took an outside audit to show it. Where were the Latino and Black politicians and school boardmembers at while this went on?

Anonymous said...

what's going on with the 204's?are they getting they're door's kicked in yet?

Anonymous said...

from pacoimero......what ever the power's that be try to do will never work.who ever thought that putting injunction's on varrio's should of thought of the repurcussion's first.think about it, when you put a injunction on a gang, you will only force them to expand and become bigger.for example on blythe street, they moved on to other part's of panorama city when before you would only find them on one street.they are deeper than ever,and continue to recruit all over p.c,with several click' pacoima the project boys got kicked out of the sanfernando gardens,they are now bigger than ever with many click's,because they were forced to expand into other areas of pacoima.on langdon street the same thing happened!in canoga park cpa only got more vicious,they continue to blast the negro's on a regular how exactly is the injunction's working?a cop get's killed and vineland supposedly was put out of business!yea right,the more t.v and newspaper coverage they got the more that little vato's wanted to be from that varrio!the more you glorify a varrio the more famous it will get.duh!nothing that is currently being done to combat gangs will work.period.............pacoimero

Anonymous said...

To Pacoimero,

So the police should do nothing about gangs? Is that your solution?
I guess it is true what they say ; "gangs spread faster than an STD".

Anonymous said...

Reading the story below gave me another idea on lowering crime rates in Los Angeles.

Mayor Villarigosa are you listening ?

Anonymous said...

Are more Latinos in gangs than other races?

I was reading all these posts about how the Latinos in USA are in gangs due to racisim and the goverment not supporting their issues. But I think it is interesting that gangs are a problem in just about every Latino country not just here in the USA.

Prison riots in El Salvador

Prison riots in Venezuela

Prison riots in Mexico

Prison riots in Brazil

Just maybe it also a cultural problem Latinos have brought to this country. I do not see this as much with other immigrants such as Vietnamese, Chinese, Hindus, Russians, Jews and you do know that whites also immigrated here too.

El Gringo

Criminallopath said...

Sarcasm ON:

Of course not. The Tongs, the Triads, the Tiny Rascals,the Russian Mafia, the Israeli Mafia, the "Gangs of New York", the Italian Mafia... of no... the Orientals and Whites have no gangs.

Sarcasm OFF:

Anonymous said...

Just maybe it also a cultural problem Latinos have brought to this country. I do not see this as much with other immigrants such as Vietnamese, Chinese, Hindus, Russians, Jews and you do know that whites also immigrated here too.


don quixote said...

El Gringo read some history and you will find that almost all immigrant groups ganged up when they got here in the USA. We have had every ethnic group ganged up including the Irish, Russians, Italians, Chinese, Japanese, Blacks, and on and on. These gangs provided services to their people that were not available thru mainstream channels. Thats the way it's always been, take off your blinders and do some research. We are a country of immigrants and continue to be so with all the same issues that go along with new arrivals. These sometimes "illegal" means to an existance usually continue until the group becomes mainstream and able to utilize the system like everyone else.
As far as Latins or anyone else bringing gangs to the US I think you have got it backwards. Gangs started here and spread back into Latin AMerica, which is a fairly recent phenomenom.
And as far as "rascism" and gangs, the fact that Latin AMerica is now suffering the gang problem we have had here for generations doesn't mean that rascism doesn't exist in Latin America. Most of the Latin American countries have been ruled by very European non-indio or african "Gachupin's" who have exploited the populations they have ruled, and also the denial by these weak greedy and very patronizing Ruling classes is very evident. This has been going on for hundreds of years and can be seen in most of the great Art Latin American has produced, check out any of the Mexican Murals produced by Diego Rivera, Siqueros,Frida Kahlo, the photographers like Casasola, Figueroa. There you will see the evidence of rascism that exists to this day.

Anonymous said...

What Pacoimero said is true, gang injuctions don't work. They are the best recuiting tool that any gang can have and these idiots came up with it! The f-ed up part about it is that the politicians and LE that drop them know that they don't work and one has to bet that they know the end results. They have all the stats and studies in front of them. They can't be that stupid can they?? If they really cared they would use those stats and studies and provide the funding to the programs that truly work. The fact is that they don't give a rats ass what goes on in any of the poorer sides of town. All that they care about is their paychecks and future payraises.

Anonymous said...

This morning I cuaght a short news story on one of the spanish channels of were Mexican Fed. Police were handing over Vineland's DAVID GARCIA from Wally's (Thursday, June 23, 2005) entry. Looked around the net and there is no follow up on this story yet. Anyone has any news on Mexico's change of heart?

Anonymous said...

To Don Q and others,

I have read many history books, I am well aware of how the Spanish conquistadores came from Spain and colonized (killed many native Mayan & Aztec Indians) Mexico and Central America. And yes Europeans have immigrated to South America and so did Jews who were trying to escape the holocaust. But I am referring to recent conditions and not ancient history. The most recent and current leaders of Mexico, El Salvador, Honduras and Venezuela are all of Spanish/Indian descent and not some European Aristocrat.

And of course every race and culture and country has a criminal element. Everyone knows about the Italian, Russian, Chinese and Japanese Mafias (big duh). But in recent times the Latino population has the biggest "street gang" problem, hands down. If you look at large cities such as New York and Los Angeles most "street gangs" are Latinos. You can not tell me that the Italians, Jews, Irish, Japanese, Chinese, Russian and etc. have the street gang problems as the Latinos do. When I say gangs are a "cultural" problem I mean a way of life/custom that is taught from older people to younger people. Cultural can include music (gangster rap) etc. In other words if you father and older brother are in a gang you probably will be too. So no amount of goverment money and handout is going to change fix what happens in your own house.

And I also read you post about the elimination of unions being the cause of all gang problems. My father and uncles all used to work at the Ford Plant in the San Fernando Valley, back in the good old days when there lots of good paying jobs in Southern California. Now the only large company left in Van Nuys is Budweiser, everyone else disappeared. Greedy corporations fucked us all there. But even way back then there were more Latino street gangs.

El Gringo

Anonymous said...

So, we finally have some specifics regarding gang suppression as reported by the LA Times.,0,6060324.story?coll=la-home-headlines

Both the LAPD and the LA DAs office will put together a "Top 10 List" of gangs and devote additional officers and attorneys to these gangs. What does it take to be on the list? Violent crime. Unfortunately we have the PC modifier of "hate crimes" upping the status of any given gang. What utter idiocy and outright racism (remember it is not as bad to kill one of your own race than it is to kill outside of your race if the victim is black). The 204th Street gang will make this "Top 10 List." It doesn't really take too much thought to come up with a list of ten gangs that have committed more violent crimes than 204th Street. And, along the lines of the injunctions, they will have "stay away" orders aimed at the leaders and as a condition of their parole. At the end of the story we have our [insert random black hacktivist] here whining about "racial violence." One can only imagine that this hacktivist would be nowhere to be found if the colors were reversed... I also don't recall him condemning the mayate scum that attacked those two white girls in Long Beach. In any event, I predict that this will be yet another failure.

don quixote said...

Good post Gringo especially about the demise of all the good jobs in the SFV which I believe is the major factor in the rise of gangs and crime in the Valley. Ecomomics is also a reason why there are not the severe gang problems with other Ethnic groups anymore, Irish, Italians, Jews, have all become upwardly mobile and by and large integrated into US society. Even most of the Chicano generations of the 30's thru 70's have turned into typical US suburbanites and are very AMerican in values and lifestyles. This is a natural consequence of upward mobility that unfortunately isn't as available to more recent immigrants yet, but will and is occuring.
Hopefully we in the US will continue to demand more economic democracy and throw out the greedy proponents of "supply side" economics.
With good jobs and opportunities comes education and the gang problems will diminish no matter what the race or ethnicity.

la voz de mas alla said...

And I also read you post about the elimination of unions being the cause of all gang problems. My father and uncles all used to work at the Ford Plant in the San Fernando Valley, back in the good old days when there lots of good paying jobs in Southern California. Now the only large company left in Van Nuys is Budweiser, everyone else disappeared. Greedy corporations fucked us all there. But even way back then there were more Latino street gangs.

El Gringo
Hey gringo..there was no Ford plant in the San Fernando Valley. NEVER. You remind us too much of V(EL KOPY KAT), mexican hater and baiter, and history revisionist. We don't like sneaky cowards here mr. mayate.

chief dan matthews said...

Warning to my boys:
We will use powerful patrol cars, fast motorcycles, and superheterodyne two-way radios to fight crime in the barrios and on the rural highways of America's wide open spaces. That is all for now. Ten Four. I think I'll roll into winchell's donuts and confiscate a couple of "dozen" and head out to Wallace's palace and read some of the excerpts from his much awaited and anticipated book. Don't worry Wally, I'll be careful not to get any galze on 'dem pages.


Anonymous said...

From The Mad Mexican (aka The Brown Bill Cosby)

To all my new critics and fans from in the hat; I keep expanding on my views on gangs and the problems we Latinos have in our Barrios. I have developed my views and opinions after 35 years as an activist and 55 years of being Mexican. I was raised with six siblings and we were as poor as they come. I remember when my older brother got arrested in the East Los Angeles protests back in 1970 and I had to spend the night in the park. That was the day journalist and activist Ruben Salazar was killed. And I also marched with my older brother in many Cesar Chavez’s protests in support of farm workers which some of my relatives were. I was a Mecha vice-president and Society of Hispanic Engineers president in my college days. So this will give you a little background on where and how my opinions are formed. So I am not a right-wing conservative as so many here want to label me.

I know a very smart black software engineer who is also very active in his church and youth programs. Remember when Bill Cosby made comments that really pissed off plenty of black people, well we had many discussions about his comments. This friend gave me a book by author Juan Williams titled “Enough” which included Cosby’s comments. This book is in support of Bill Cosby's assaults on the most destructive, and self-defeating behaviors that are rotting the core of contemporary Black Culture. “Enough” focuses on the defeatist, victim mentality which festers among poor blacks, and is encouraged by "Black Leaders" and popular culture. Williams address the inevitable personal attacks and criticisms that are aimed at Cosby and any other Black person that insists personal responsibility and accountability are the only means to improved economic and social outcomes for African Americans. And now you can replace the word African American with Latino in the book because we do the same damn thing.
Link with review about “Enough” book

So yes there is racism yes there is injustice but we have not made much progress in the last 35 years focusing on this.

And for those who think the government just needs to spend more money in L.A. to solve all the problem of gangs, look at another example. If a family from moves from Los Angeles to another state such as Oregon which does not have all the gang problems of Los Angeles does their kid instantly give up his gang ties. Or does the kid get his spray can and start tagging his new home. I can show you examples of how kids are using the internet to keep in touch with other gang members once they move to another area. On this web site a 35 year old woman was recruiting kids and encouraging them to recruit new members, what a hell of a parent. The web-site had a bulletin board used by members to recruit and keep up communication and brag about their crimes. But a Mad citizen paid someone to post daily crap on their site until it was shut down. Anybody familiar with the 18th St gang knows how older members recruit new young members. And these low-lifes need to be arrested for this.

I see too many Latinos who mistake Brown Pride with gang pride and culture. Brown Pride is learning the history of you ancestors, learning to read and write the language of your ancestors etc. Brown Pride is NOT using the UFW symbol or the painting of Aztec Warriors as you gang icon.
So from my own personal success, my own kid’s success and all my “adopted” kid’s success I have seen what works to get out of the barrio. So if you old cholos really want to be part of the solution take responsibility for your own kids and immediate family and quit teaching a warped brown pride.

The Mad Mexican
(aka The Brown Bill Cosby).

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...This morning I cuaght a short news story on one of the spanish channels of were Mexican Fed. Police were handing over Vineland's DAVID GARCIA from Wally's (Thursday, June 23, 2005) entry. Looked around the net and there is no follow up on this story yet. Anyone has any news on Mexico's change of heart?

Last I heard Garcia's trial was to finally start this month. Homeboy will be lucky if he avoids the death penalty and gets life w/o. Word on the calles is that that no attorney wants to even get close to this trial. The attorney representing him must have LEs permission to at least play the part in court cause everyone else has been warned to stay away. Even the ones that represented some of my homies on the federal indictments wouldn't get close to this one. These are defense attorneys that make a living representing criminals and have been involved in really big cases all over the US. Yet they are staying far away from this one??? There are many interesting details about this case that will hopefully come out in trial. People in Sun Valley know about them but they can't be mentioned here. Wallistas should stay on top of this one it promises a good one.

Hey chief Matthews if nicer toys are your solution for fighting crime it's no wonder that LE doesn't even make a dent on it. And pretty much proves my point about how you guys spend the peoples money. I think I'll roll into the store and confiscate a couple of "dozen" cold ones and head out to the homies pad shoot some pool, and talk about how LE missteps keep making the Barrio bigger. Shit not too long ago my Barrio was supposed to be put out of business by you guys and now your helping make the Barrio bigger than ever. That "TOP 10 LIST" that LAPD and the DAs office are planning to put together will be one of their worse mistakes yet. Shit every single Barrio in LOS will be trying to out do each other to be in it. It would be an insult to not be considered at least in the top 10 for any gang. But then again they know this and are planning it so that they can get more money from the politicians and guarantee themselves a bigger paycheck.

To Mad Mexican, Mis respetos. You have lived the history that I only became aware of when I was behind bars. No school ever thought me our history and they still don't. They mention it maybe for a one days study but that's it. That's why I have mentioned how important Cultural pride in an early age is to our young ones. Youngsters are smart and catch on to all the bullshit brainwashing that they do in school. Thats why I think many rebel. I believe that if we can instill pride in their culture while they are young that that pride will drive them to beat the odds. It's what you vatos were trying to do in 60s. It's also why they wont allow it to happen again. But anyways, I agree with you that some vatos do it dirty and raise their kids to become gangmembers. But most don't. I can only speak on my Barrio and what I have seen with my homies and I can honestly tell you that even the hardest vatos don't want their kids to follow in their footsteps. On a more personal note I can say that I have used the brown pride method with my son and so far it has also been a success. Mad Mexican there is only one BROWN PRIDE.

Anonymous said...

what sv said about that top 10 list is very i said before the more recognition you give a certain varrio the more popular it wiil get.who would'nt want to be from a varrio listed in the top 10? man, i could imagine all kind's of little mocosos salivating at the mouth reading about that top 10!get readt fella's because there's ten varrio's out there about to blow up like a motherfucker with some serious recruiting going on!............pacoimero

Anonymous said...

The voz de mas alla said...
Hey gringo..there was no Ford plant in the San Fernando Valley. NEVER. You remind us too much of V(EL KOPY KAT), mexican hater and baiter, and history revisionist. We don't like sneaky cowards here mr. mayate.

I guess I just imagined seeing all those trucks without the bed and cabs installed. And I also never saw all those flat beds, service/utility beds and step side beds. And I guess Ford did not have a truck final preparation facility in SFV because you say NEVER. I used to work for a defense contractor in the building which is now Fry’s in Burbank see if you can tell me who that was. You seem to know every company EVER in the SFV or is it also just my imagination because there were NEVER any defense contractors in the SFV?

And I am not a Mexican Hating Race baiter, I was just stating facts about gangs being a problem in large cities with a large latin population. Look at the LAPD and Santa Clarita Sheriff’s web sites and compare crime rates.

And is the Los Angeles mayor asking for federal funding for a new Disneyland or fighting gangs.

I am not your imaginary friend “V” so quit smoking that stuff !!!

El Gringo