Friday, August 05, 2005

INSANITY AT THE BORDER
While I was away, a regular reader sent me an item from the July 28 issue of the Tucson Citizen. According to the article, Police Commander Jesus Zamora of San Luis Colorado, a Mexican town just across the border from San Luis, Arizona, will "work with a local gang" in exchange for an "end to what they [the gang] say is police harassment." There are so many things wrong with this that it's tough to know where to start.

According to the Arizona cops, the gang (which goes un-named in the article) is responsible for smuggling drugs and illegal border crossers and committing at least two homicides. Police Commander Zamora's deal is nothing more than a declaration of unconditional surrender. Coming on the heels of the chaos in Nuevo Laredo, this item rates as small potatoes. But it underscores Mexico's freefall into anarchy. Last week the NY TIMES ran a very long and well-researched story on corruption south of the border that claimed the heart of the rot starts right in Vicente Fox's office. It's no surprise then that Commander Zamora, manning a lawless border outpost threw up his hands and basically said, "Whatever."

The concept of coming to some kind of detente between a criminal organization and legitimate authority is a seductive one that pops up regularly and flames out in a death spiral every time it's been tried. It doesn't work. It has never worked. It will never work. We need only to look at the track record of these misguided attempts.

Let's start with the LCN during WWII. After the NORMANDIE was torched in NEW YORK harbor, the US NAVY and the FBI made a deal with mob boss LUCKY LUCIANO. Because the Cosa Nostra controlled the docks, Lucky would make sure the troop ships and cargo heading for Europe would get loaded on time and only a tolerable level of theft would be allowed to happen. In exchange, Lucky would be released from prison at the end of the war and deported to Sicily. Bad deal.

The LCN didn't suddenly become Mother Teresa. The deal gave the LCN total control of the docks and the longshoreman's union and made a lot of wise guys wealthy beyond their dreams. The deal legitimized the LCN in the eyes of a lot of people who should have known better.

With Lucky free to operate in Sicily, he traveled to Cuba with Meyer Lansky and established cordial relations with corrupt president Fulgencio Bautista. The math is simple. LCN + corrupt Bautista = Fidel Castro. Gee, all the government wanted was to make sure the beans and bullets got to the Western front. What we got was the Russian missile crisis and 50 years of the lights going off every night at 8:00 PM in Cuba. Plus the gulags for AIDS patients and firing squads for "counter-revolutionaries."

In post-war Sicily, Mafiosi no longer worked in the shadows as they had to when Mussolini was in power. They ran for office and became mayors, governors and national representatives. LCN controlled everything, legitimate and otherwise.

Fast forward to the Neopolitan Camora in the 1970s. The big money-maker for the Camora wasn't dope. It was cigarettes. In Italy, cigarettes are a state-owned monopoly. That means the government imports and produces all the smokes. There are no private sector cigarette companies. Which means no competition and therefore, the government sets the price.

At a time when smokes sold for 40 cents a pack in the US, Italian smokers paid over a dollar for the same pack with the government tax stamp on the bottom. The Camora saw this as a golden business opportunity. They bought up entire cargo ships of US smokes and parked them 20 miles off the coast of Naples. Every afternoon at 3:00 PM, squadrons of 35-ft power boats would depart from Naples harbor and lash up next to the mother ship to load up on roughly a ton of smokes per trip.

The boats would offload at a thousand little places on the coast. The smokes were ultimately sold on street corners by little old ladies and young kids. The illegal trade cost the government millions of dollars a year in tax revenue. The Finanza (Italian customs dept.) started cracking down on the fast boats. When the Camora felt the heat, they started killing cops and launched a wave of armed robberies, hijackings, assaults and tourist attacks.

To make a very long story short, the Camora made a deal with the cops. Let us run the cigarette business unmolested and we'll stop killing cops, robbing tourists and hijacking cargo trucks. The cops said okay.

When the Corsicans, French and Sicilians found out that the Camora was running in and out of Naples without so much as a raised eyebrow, they started piggybacking heroin, hashish and weed on the cigarette shipments. Naples became a main port of entry for every illegal substance known to dope fiend. The expected spike in murder, overdoses and fat dirty bank accounts ensued. Bad deal.

In the US, we have the examples of the Gangster Disciples. That social experiment, funded with taxpayer dollars, let the Detroit gangs "police" themselves. The end result was a trip to Lybia, a pact with Qadaffi, a rocket launcher, El Rukn assassination squads, more dope on the streets and more dead bodies in alleys. Bad deal.

To a lesser extent, we had the same situation with Project Get Going here in LA. A lot of you old timers remember that one and I'll leave you all to flesh out the details in the comments section.

The historical precedents to what Commander Zamora is doing in San Luis Colorado are clear. You don't legitimize criminal orgs by making deals with them. It's bad policy that will always burn society. Deals with individuals is another story that can bear untainted fruit. But that's a whole other discussion.

101 comments:

Anonymous said...

do people still wonder why average,law abiding mexican nationals cant wait to get the hell outta mexico?

TijuanaJailer said...

(To a lesser extent, we had the same situation with Project Get Going here in LA.)

The Community Concern Corporation and Get Going Project were two programs that were taken over by the EME in the mid-1970's.

Community Concern was headed by Rafael "Chispas" Sandoval (a street gang member from Hoyo Maravilla and longtime EME soldier) who attempted to legitimize himself by running for councilman in L.A. against Art Snyder. They engaged in heated debates on television and radio and Snyder persuaded the city council to disqualify CCC for $300,000 in federal funds. EME's infiltration of CCC culminated after two CCC "employees" - Evarito "Little Blanco" Blanco and William "Wild Bill" Robles - were "terminated" by EME gunmen in 1976.


“Chispas” criminal record had somehow been sealed during this political struggle and Snyder succeeded in shedding light on the fact that not only was Chispas a made member but also had celled with Joe Morgan while in state prison. Snyder, whose family would require 24-hour LAPD surveillance and protection, prevailed at the ballot box and "Chispas" was sent packing.

Get Going was in full operation from 1976 thru 1977 due to the efforts of Michael and Ellen Delia.
This halfway house for parolees was allowed to function with a staff that was replaced by EME members as "ghost slots" were created for their employment.

Not only were they being paid for doing nothing but the company cars (which were supposed to take new parolees to job interviews) made the rounds throughout California as "hit cars".

Over thirty EME executions took place over a ten month period with at least a dozen occurring between January 9 thru February 18, 1977. Many of these were performed by Alfredo “Alfie” Sosa (he later pled guilty to about 4 or 5 of these) who is described by a former EME member in his writings as “the Joe Pesci” of the Mexican Mafia.

Most of these killings took place in Get Going's company leased cars and one 1977 Pontiac Cutlass Supreme in particular had the dubious distinction of being involved in hits in Sacramento, Hayward, Fresno and Los Angeles. Once again, Alfie was involved in hits in each of these cities with multiples in Los Angeles. I guess you could say he was intimately acquainted with the Cutlass.

It was the execution of Ellen Delia (you got it, the Cutlass + Alfie were the principals) in Sacramento that drew LE's attention to Get Going and ultimately to the Mob that many in the barrios looked upon as "pillars of the community".

The lesson learned: Never make a pact with a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

StillNoScript said...

I have to say I agree with Wally on Mexico being in a state of emergency.

Mexico has corruption problems that make Bush, Cheney, Perle, Wolfowitz and Halliburton look like kids at a lemonade stand.

Just from first hand experience; I can't even go to Tijuana anymore because I can't have a good time when there's an 8 year old kid with no shoes, on a cool night, trying to sell me a packet of gum.

I know Mexico has money. I've seen Vincente Fox's suits and I watch Sabado Gigante...Women that beautiful just don't shake it like that for broke men.

So, where are the taxes going? Not to any programs to help the have-nots with job training and public schools, not to mention remedial public assistance to the poorest.

It's not going to the roads and highways.

Do they have taxes? The money is going somewhere, and it's very likely going to the druglords.

All we could really do, aside from enforcing the border (from criminals entering, particularly terrorists, not those intending to work), and working with the world intellegence community, is set an example by putting up sanctions between us and Mexico. But, as long as we're trading with Communist China, countries that use child labor, and Saudis who's very oil ENTIRELY funded the 9/11 attacks, I just don't see what example we could set.

The only remaining option would be to go to war with Mexico. Laura would never allow it.

T.J;

Interesting read on the CCC and Get Going projects of the '70s.

The incidents you brought up are starkingly similar to something we'd see on an A&E program about Cosa Nostra. Hit after hit. How did the left coast keep this under the rug and away from the spotlight of the national media?

Anonymous said...

(do people still wonder why average,law abiding mexican nationals cant wait to get the hell outta mexico?)

You certainly have a great point there, partner. I know, I know, it's not OUR problem but it surely becomes our problem in the long run, doesn't it?

I DO NOT condone "illegal" immigration but I do feel sorry for the "have not's" in our neighboring country.
Solution: ??????

KMA

Anonymous said...

Is that all you got? you think theyre arent govt and leos with the same mentality? come on this peice reads like an invasion for iraq thesis. You dont blame a whole for a fews mistakes.

Anonymous said...

another thing, StillNoScript Mexico does not even compare to our govt in brutality a few killings here and there compared to 100,000's+ deaths whos the real gangstas!?

TijuanaJailer said...

(I have to say I agree with Wally on Mexico being in a state of emergency.)

I think Mexico has been in a state of emergency seemingly forever ..!
How it affects our country and what we do about it is indeed another dilemna.

Script:

The LE community did not begin to effectively deal with EME, NF, AB and BGF (in that order of street activity) until the DEA Prison Gang Task Force banded together in the mid-70's under the leadership of Joe Moody and Gil Avila, respectively. Local LE agencies from throughout the state combined talented forces with State agencies like the SSU and Dept. of Justice and for the first time in California history, made a REAL concerted effort to go after the prison gangs.

The now defunt Los Angeles
Herald-Examiner was the first local news source to announce (Front Page) in 1973 that there was a Mexican Mafia in existence.

The trial of Gilbert "Shotgun" Sanchez and Ramon "Ponchi" Amado in the 1972 slaying of Raymond Ochoa was covered from beginning to end and EME's first major defector - Carlos "Pieface" Ortega - testified against his bro's and revealed the blood-in, blood-out death oath that existed. He also identified Shotgun's EME tattoo (emblazoned on his chest) which Shotgun revealed proudly in court.

Shotgun explained the letters EME to mean: "El Mexicano Encarcelado" (The Incarcerated Mexican) and further explained that it denoted the "pride of being Mexican".

The defendants were acquitted. The jury (and the public too, I might add) had a difficult time believing that such a group existed and community skeptics attributed the name to the "imagination of our overzealous law enforcement community."

(The incidents you brought up are starkingly similar to something we'd see on an A&E program about Cosa Nostra. Hit after hit. How did the left coast keep this under the rug and away from the spotlight of the national media?)

"Nobody was paying attention!" (Quote from a 1977 or 1978 NBC Don Harris prison gang interview with "Pieface" Ortega who was silhouetted) I believe we counted an approximate total of 35 to 40 EME street executions before all the wire services kicked in and it was the murder of Ellen Delia that "broke the camel's back".

Even back then, it was a politcally incorrect abomination to refer to such a thing as a "Mexican Mafia". The Richard Alatorre's of the world (Councilman Alatorre for the uninformed) would have a field day with such fodder. Not to mention that Alatorre himself was a regular cocaine consumer (meaning he ONLY obtained the drug from his EME buddies for his personal use).

But Ellie's body, found in a ditch off a back road leading to the Sacramento Airport led to a series of arrests which led to more arrests which exposed the EME once and for all. After that, the term EME became a household word that everyone understood and no longer this "myth".

The acceleration, and success, of prison gang prosecutions - especially versus EME, NF, and AB - is now a RICO specialty item as the FBI (the new titular head of modern-day "task forces") and the locals utilize this statute effectively against these gangs.

Not enough credit is given to the LOCAL agencies whose personnel are the REAL experts in knowing the history and daily routines of these bad actors.

When the "credit" is doled out at orchestrated press conferences we do not see the unsung heroes - the undercover agents who spend countless hours maintaining vigilant watches in our communities and working tirelessly on extracting the cancerous element that infects our society.

I'll drink to them (Corona with a twist of lime).

Peace .........

Tijuana Jailer

StillNoScript said...

T.J; Great read, again, and as usual.

Anonymous- Your preaching to the choir about America being more brutal throughout world history than anyone.

I agree with you.

And note my SOLUTION for the Mexican border: To only weed out terrorists and violent criminals. Far as i'm concerned, anyone without a criminal record or without any identity with the world intellegence community on terrorism should be allowed to cross the border without even putting out their cigarette.

I don't know if you were referring to myself or Wally about the blueprint for...and I can't even say this without laughing, a WAR WITH MEXICO, but I hope you got the context that I was joking.

(Remember, Laura Bush would never allow it.)

I believe in going to war under one condition only; And that being that a nation poses a threat and has the will and means to attack us. That will never be Mexico. And it certainly wasn't Iraq either. As far as I'm concerned, the war on terror has been on hold since we pulled most of our troops out of Afghanistan, and I'm sure those in London would agree with me.

Spikey said...

Hey tijuana jailer.
Could there be that if one thinks about the F## mess Mexico has (especially the northern part of it) with all the drug cartels that in the bigger spectrum the chief of police and everyone else in that town that believed in befriending the Gangs that might have though. Shit i have bigger fish to fry (or there are bigger fish that can fry me) such as the Chapo Guzman, El Huero Palma and the Arellano Felix. All alighned in the border and with active conflicts with each other and comparing it to these gangs could be consider small poatatoes?

Spikey

Anonymous said...

all there be that if Hey one tijuana thinks about the F## jailer mess Mexico has Could (especially part one) with the drug on us that the in some bigger wild the chief northern of police and everyone body at a time inside town which bewitched loved boyfriend of the Gang can mighty dog his way through. Shoot we don't have bigger fish? on the fly?(can it sure be something? as such, the Chapo El Sombrero Palmas of and but can the small Felix. All in the border and not coming anytime active conflicticated or on each other thus giving it to these gangs could consider poatatoes?

Spikey Forthright

Anonymous said...

Yo, Spike,

Is there a coded message somewhere in this comment? Try us again.

Anonymous said...

C'MON LETS GET REALISTIC,WE REALLY DON'T WANT MEXICO TO GET THEIR SHIT TOGETHER DO WE? WE NEED THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT TO CHEAT THEIR CITIZENS OUT OF A GREAT LIFE,SO THEN THEY(the mexican people)CAN CROSS OVER ILLEGALLY,AND WORK HARD FOR PENNIES
ON THE DOLLAR,THEE ILLEGAL ALIEN IS THE BACKBONE OF THE WORKING FORCE OF AMERICA,THEY DO JOBS THAT NO ONE ELSE WOULD DO,EVEN IF THEY GOT PAID GOOD,WE DO JOBS THAT BLACKS DON'T EVEN WANT,AND THATS THE TRUTH,ILLEGALS MAKE AMERICA,ESPECIALLY CORPORATE WHITE AMERICA,LOOK GOOD AND FILTHY RICH,
K. M. A. YOU PROBABLY BENEFITTED FROM ILLEGALS,IN MANY WAYS IN YOUR LIFE,...FROM THE FRUIT TO THE ICE CREAM MAN,HELL MAYBE EVEN YOUR GARDENER.........:-)


(or maybe im smoking something good!)

HOLLENBECK RESIDENT!!

Anonymous said...

ya,this country,u.s.,is so horrible.we have americans leaving by the millions.all sarcasim apart,yes,this country has done sum horibble things.but,this country ha salso done alotta good things .who does the rest of the world look to for financial help then natural disaters accure?u see,our country has pros and cons,compared with mexicos cons.dont get me wrong,i love mexico.but the country is going down the river and thats why we see its citizens jumping ship.

Anonymous said...

and by the way,illegal immegration benifets the mexican governtment also.they love the fact that mexicans in the u.s. send billions of dollers back to mexico. the billions that help with the basic things that the government should provide.u see, its simple,as long as mexicans in the u.s. keep providing for mexicans in mexico,the mex. governtment wont have to.and so it makes it easy for them to keep on with its corrupt ways.i mean imagine if mexicans couldnt crossover here anymore?the government would have to start actually spending money on the people and not pocketing everything.what would happen if the people of mexico had to live in the same conditions they do now,but without the option of coming up north?....revolution..and the mexican government knows this.

CONEX said...

WE NEED TO STAY THE HELL OUT OF MEXICO AND DEAL WITH OUR OWN PROBLEMS OF RACIAL PROFILING, AND WHAT ABOUT THE LITTLE HOMELESS KIDS ON SKIDROW IN LOS ANGELES OUTSIDE THE WIENGART PAROLE HOME, WE NEED TO TAKE A REAL GOOD LOOK IN OUR OWN COUNTRY AND FIX THOSE PROBLEMS HERE BEFORE WE START SPENDING BILLIONS ELSEWHERE, ANY OF YOU FOLKS EVER BEEN TO BROWNSVILLE TEXAS ? THAT PLACE LOOKS LIKE THE GHETTOS OF MEXICO BUT WE ALSO HAVE GHETTOS HERE, IF YOU ARE A PAISANO YOU KNOW NOT ALL MEXICO IS BAD , MY HOMETOWN OF VILLA GUERRERO JALISCO IS THE BOMB AND WE DO IT LIKE THE OLD DAYS , HECHO A MANO .... QUE VIVA LA VILLA

RetiredJoker said...

Wow, have any of you ever been to Mexico? There are tons of mexicans who are doing fine and don't want to move. Most of the Poverty stricten areas are in northen mexico and borders the u.s. Hell, why not cross the border if you can make a better life for yourself and your family? I know plenty of folks in Mexico City, guadalajara, and other inland cities who are doing fine and have no dreams of migrating to the U.S.
Its a trip when you see them come here for vacation, then go back. "American is a nice place to visit, but I would rathar live in Mexico"...I heard them say it!!
But on to the hot topic of border control which is the biggest double edged sword in the universe. The right side you have the politicians using drugs and terrroism as a way to "Secure" the borders, but even the smart conservatives know that migrant workers are the minimum wage workforce of america. Lets be honest here, young amercians think they are owed something and are too lazy to earn a living at minimum or break a sweat for a living.
On the other side if you use the discrimination card accusig the government as using this as an excuse to lock down our borders than you open it up for potential terroists but more probable would be drug trafficking.
I foresee the only the way the U.S. gets involed is if some "innocent" caucasion u.s citizens get murdered and cause an uproar across the bible belt of america. As long as its just mexican nationals, drug dealers and gang bangers getting killed, then the U.S. will keep a blind eye.

Ever seen the Harrison Ford flick, Clear and Present Danger?
It shows a excellent example of U.S. Policy on the war on drugs.
We only get involved once it becomes personal.


"End of my political Rant"

Anonymous said...

"I know Mexico has money. I've seen Vincente Fox's suits and I watch Sabado Gigante...Women that beautiful just don't shake it like that for broke men."

This has to be one of the most ignorant statements on Mexico and proof that people in America know very little about life outside of the USA.

Sabado Gigante started in Chile and then moved to Miami Florida it is now an American Show. How can you use this show in a reference to anything Mexican, unless you consider Mexico, Central and South America all the same country. I bet you quote problems in Korea by giving Thai examples.

Part-time Reader.

Anonymous said...

""This has to be one of the most ignorant statements on Mexico and proof that people in America know very little about life outside of the USA.""

What exactly is it then that we Americans should know about life outside of the USA (specifically Mexico) that would move us from being ignorant towards a state of enlightenment?

Obviously not everyone in Mexico is streaming across the border so why is the U.S. concerned about the immigration situation?

One of the Ignorant

Anonymous said...

I am not concerned one way or the other about the immigration problem... However, before I make a comment on Mexico, I am going to make sure I use a Mexican example. I am pointing out that when it comes to people south of the border we call them all Mexicans, no matter what country they are from. Pure and simple American arrogance/ignorance.

Anonymous said...

Sorry previous post was Part-time Reader. Also, I am not from south of the border, I just like laughing when see comments that are based on fallacies and have root in fact.

StillNoScript said...

Part Time Reader-

Well, consider me "In The Hat's" HYPOCRITE OF THE MONTH, because I was jumping all over people in the last blog for making jokes similar to the one I made.

What I said about Sabado Gigante was ignorant, and stupid. I apologize for the comment.

But I will not apologize for what I said about Vincente Fox's suits, nor the the point I made in general; And that is that Mexico certainly has money and there has to be some kind of corruption keeping that money from getting into programs to help the THIRD WORLD atmosphere that any of us can see when we cross the border.

Anonymous said...

SNS,

I agree that corruption is out of control in Mexico.

Part-time reader

Sancha said...

Veering a little from the subject of what's going on in Mexico, did anyone else see the MSN Reports profile on Folsom Sunday evening? It showed some poor vato getting the shit kicked out of him, and when they interviewed a guard later, he said it was a "North on North" attack, meaning a northern Californian Mexican attacking another northern Californian Mexican because the older guy didn't show some respect. The guard pointed out that the man who got beat up was about 50 something, while the tough guy beating on him was in his 20's. That seems sort of backassward to me...am I being naive? It seems the older vatos should be kicking the shit out of the younger ones, over respect of all things. But, in addition to that, the fact that it was Norteno vs Norteno also jumped out at me; like they don't have enough problems without harassing their own? And when I say "they" I mean any gang in prison...

Anonymous said...

Mexico has always had corruption and the U.S. always turned a blind eye until mexicans took control of the U.S. drug market. I recall going to Mexico 15 years ago and never hearing of drugs or shit like that. The big thing was kidnapping businessmen. Now every streetcorner in real mexico has wannabe surenos posted up on the corners smoking weed and selling drugs and basically fucking up a beautiful country. Yeah the people were poor , but not as unhappy as you'd think ( ignorance is bliss I guess).
The people of mexico don't see the cartel bossess as much as they do the assholes who came here (U.S.), because of their weak minds joined gangs and got poisened in LA, then took that poison back to Mexico.
The little old ladies going to the tortilla factory ( they buy for each meal) get fucked with alot more by LA's rejects than cartel bosses. I see alot more graffitti and shit all over. Mexico thought it was getting over on the U.S. by sending everyone over here to solve their problems, but we got them back by poisoning all these dumb fuckers and then shipping them back.

Anonymous said...

OUT WITH THE OLD , IN WITH THE NEW

Anonymous said...

I thought the north was run out of Folsom.

Anonymous said...

Mexico has always had corruption and the U.S. always turned a blind eye until mexicans took control of the U.S. drug market. I recall going to Mexico 15 years ago and never hearing of drugs or shit like that. The big thing was kidnapping businessmen. Now every streetcorner in real mexico has wannabe surenos posted up on the corners smoking weed and selling drugs and basically fucking up a beautiful country. Yeah the people were poor , but not as unhappy as you'd think ( ignorance is bliss I guess).
The people of mexico don't see the cartel bossess as much as they do the assholes who came here (U.S.), because of their weak minds joined gangs and got poisened in LA, then took that poison back to Mexico.
The little old ladies going to the tortilla factory ( they buy for each meal) get fucked with alot more by LA's rejects than cartel bosses. I see alot more graffitti and shit all over. Mexico thought it was getting over on the U.S. by sending everyone over here to solve their problems, but we got them back by poisoning all these dumb fuckers and then shipping them back.

I'm sure if the nortenos had the numbers, they'd be doing the same shit down there as the surenos I mentioned.
No matter how poor the fucking city , town, or village in Mexico was, the people seemed alot freindlier and content than people living in America's mexican ghettos.

StillNoScript said...

Sancha-

Is this MS-NBC you're talking about? I know on the weekends they always have programs about prisons.

I'll look out for that.

An older prison gangster being beaten by a younger one is disturbing....not that prison gangs and gangs in general aren't disturbing themselves.

I'm thinking the old guy snitched on someone, or did something to break the rules. I'm just not buying that any prison gang would allow one of it's elder members be beaten down because he didn't show a younger member respect.

Another signal of just how brazen prison gangs have become, or a false story fed to the press by the warden?

Anonymous said...

CONFESSIONS TO A MEXICAN WIFE

Jose was dying. His wife, Cuca, was maintaining a vigil by his side. She held his fragile hand in the weak light, tears running down her face.

Her praying woke him from his slumber. He looked up, pale lips moving slightly. "Cuca mi Amor," he whispered.

"Jose Mi Amor," she said. "Rest, don't talk."

He was insistent. "Cuca," he said in his tired voice, "I have something that I must confess."

"There's nothing to confess," replied the weeping Cuca, "everything's all right, go to sleep now."

"No, no. I must die in peace, I....I slept with your sister, your best friend, her best friend and your mother."

" I know mi amor" whispered Cuca, "now let the poison work, hijo de tu pinche madre!"

Sancha said...

Si, Senor No Script...yeah, they frequently have stuff on prisons. This just really caught my eye, because I felt the same as you. It was just really backwards to me; I thought they took care of their own inside.

Anonymous said...

a question for all of ya'll?


since alot of Gangbangers in Sureno neighborhoods are born in Mexico, and when they commit a crime, they do time, and after doing their bid they are picked up by I.N.S. they get deported, and A FELON CANNOT RETURN TO THE US or they will face Re-entry charges (if caught)


some dont do alot of time, and just get deported again, Others not so lucky get alot of time just for the re-entry because of their criminal record.

some dont give a fucc and they come back knowing what could happen if their name is brought up, or finger prints are scanned if they ever hit a jail


others think twice about returning to the usa, example one of my cousins who lived here all but 3 years of his life, he had a Permanent Residency but was taken away after he commited a couple of crimes, one such was a FELONY, he did his time and before being released, he had to go to an INS facility in NORTH LAS VEGAS to deal with the MIGRA, He tried to fight this from the OUTside but was denyed of a Bail-bond because he is a Convicted FELON (beside a INS bail-bond is cash only and it is real expesive around $15 thousand).

He was Deported and told he COULD NOT ever return or he will face around 3 to 20 years of incarceration for the re-entry

so he is down there in mexico, wishing the laws would change, but in the meantime he has to adjust to mexico, and thats his reality




so my question is....... >>IS THERE ANY OR CAN THERE BE CARNALES born in MEXICO in the EME? since they get deported before they "earn more stripes"


another question can Salvadorians get in to the EME, besides MS-13 and 18st alot of neighborhoods have alot of SALVADORENOS bangin' hard.

these vatos are raza too


what about others in SURENO nighborhoods, like HONDURENOS, GUATEMELAS, COLOMBIANOS, NICARAGUAS, OTHERS FROM CENTRAL and SOUTH-AMERICA, EVEN NATIVE-AMERICAN SOME CUBANS AND EVEN SOME PUERTO-RICANS etc.

Are they denyed, no-mater how much work they are able to put inn ?

TijuanaJailer said...

Great questions regarding EME membership. Like the Sicilian Mafia, the Mexcian Mafia has similar yet sometimes diverse ethnic requirements for membership.

Allow me to explain: With VERY FEW EXCEPTIONS, EME members a)have done time with most of them being "state raised" in the California prison system (the obvious current exception today would be in the federal prison system); b)possess a criminal resume from a street gang; c)ALL new recruits are sponsored by made member(s).

EMEROS are overwhelmingly made up of Mexican-American members with many Mexican nationals included as well.

I am sure I will miss some Latino groups but it is pretty inconsequential anyway. The non-Mexican racial representation in La EME is as follows:

Puerto-Rican, Native American, Caucasian, Italian, Filipino, and Japanese.

Notable "exceptions": Jesse "Cheneno" Jordan is half black and half Chicano; Mike Delia is Italian; Manuel "Mad Korean" Enerva is Filipino; Mike "Jap Mike" Kudo (his character was also portrayed in American Me) is Japanese; and other notables included Joe Morgan (white) and Raymond "Huero Shy" Shryock. The latter two were raised in Chicano neighborhoods and spoke impeccable Spanish. Both actually possessed Mexican accents!!

There are many carnales born in Mexico. Some have even been deported - some remained south of the border and some have returned.
Many American-born EME live and have lived south of the border and there has been an ongoing relationship with BOTH their counterparts on this side of the border AND with the "Chuy" Araujo Family (past) and the Arrellano-Felix cartel (present).

One EME member, David Corona, maintained a solid relationship with the Tijuana cartel and you can read much of this here:

http://www.sandiegomag.com
/issues/june99/blood.shtml

The Mexican cartels would have more to lose by being associated with the EME and not much to gain. On the other hand, the EME sees itself in a win-win situation.

There is no doubt that, like the Italian Mafia, the Arellano-Felix cartel has enormous capabilities on the outside and unlimited resources. The cartel's dilemma is similar to the Mob's: what happens when they find themselves in the Feds where the EME/sureno/AB forces are deeply entrenched.

It is already a well documented fact that EME and AB have been providing protection and picking up contracts for La Cosa Nostra in the federal system and on the streets. It is also known that a drug relationship has existed between Mexican nationals in the federal prison system and EME members.

The criminal evolvement of these networks will be interesting stuff to monitor in the coming years as EME and Mexican cartels will likely achieve a sort of "detente" where EME knows it controls the inside and the cartels have the resources to supply unlimited firepower on the outside.

Both the cartels and the EME understand that any bloodletting (as the San Diego Union article seems to theorize as inevitable) would not be good for the drug business and counterproductive.
Any confrontations will likely be subtle rather than blatant.

(another question can Salvadorians get in to the EME, besides MS-13 and 18st alot of neighborhoods have alot of SALVADORENOS bangin' hard.)

Any loyal "hard hitting" Latino would definitely be considered for recruitment in La EME with the proper sponsorship and "putting in time and work" is definitely the key. Bottom line: The more you kill on the EME's behalf, the more you demonstrate your loyalty and solidify your position.

Peace .........

Tijuana Jailer

Anonymous said...

Tijuana Jailer,

If you can read spanish here is some more information on David Corona. Just click at the paragraph under Narco Juniors. It was written by that journalist he tried to kill, Jesus Blancornelas.

http://www.zetatijuana.com/anteriores/1628/edicion.html

Anonymous said...

LMAO at Tijuana Jailer...
If the Eme were AIDS, and T.J. was a Scientist who knew enough about the disease to come up with a cure... he wouldn't because the treatment is getting him paid! As long as these young Mexicans keep fucking off their lives, he has a job... thanks for the "How To" on how to join the Eme!
You are some disturbed individuals... actually, you're all spectators and gossip hounds who would love to be out there kicking up dust, either for one side or the other... but don't have the heart. T. Jailer... keep the dressed up comments coming!

Anonymous said...

Welcome to Cyber Space !!

"As long as these young Mexicans keep fucking off their lives, he has a job..."

It sure would be great to have our law enforcement people unemployed. I agree with you, Anonymous.

"thanks for the "How To" on how to join the Eme!"

So now we blame T.J. for giving these scumbags the "know how"? Think about what you are saying and assign responsibility where it should be assigned. The bad guys know EXACTLY what it takes to be a made member.

"You are some disturbed individuals... actually, you're all spectators and gossip hounds"

This is why they have "other" places in cyber space where you can "travel", should you elect to do so. Cover your eyes maybe?


"...who would love to be out there kicking up dust, either for one side or the other... but don't have the heart."

LMAO ... speak for yourself. Some of us have already been "there" (Viet Nam and etc.) so please don't talk about heart unless you categorize a "drive-by" under "kicking up dust".

"T. Jailer... keep the dressed up comments coming!"

Keep 'em coming T.J.

KMA

Anonymous said...

interesting article from ZETA. The safe houses still exist in southern SD county for the AF cartel.

The AF cartel is like an old dog. since the removal of Benjamin and Ramon at the top, the AF cartel no longer has the bite they once did.

Tapatio

RetiredJoker said...

La eme and The NF are unique in the fact that their membership does cross many color lines. Whereas the AB and BGF somewhat started as racial power gangs where the BGF had somewhat of a political agenda.
I don't know what the percentage of non white card carrying AB members there although we all know of their close workings with La Eme. Same can be said of the NF and BGF. I can't think of any non blacks in the BGF but plenty of non mexican americans and even non hispanics in the NF.
I guess that goes with the history of barrios and non hispanics growing up in those hoods whereas AB and BGF are mostly Prison sects.
Anyone know of any prominant non white AB Members or non black BGF members, (not assoicates?)
Once you get to the streets, things are pretty much up for grabs. With different races all acting the same and acting like different races due to the geography of thier upbrining. If you grew up in a chincao neigborhood,chances are you will reflect that lifestyle no matter what your skin tone, same can be said about black and white neighborhoods, poor and rich.

Anonymous said...

Yeah Baby, One for us!

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/09/courthouse.shooting.ap/index.html

I love gangsta shit, this blog is pretty cool!

Anonymous said...

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/09/courthouse.shooting.ap/index.html

Whoops, here it is!

StillNoScript said...

Anonymous said...
actually, you're all spectators and gossip hounds who would love to be out there kicking up dust, either for one side or the other... but don't have the heart.


Who are you kicking up dust for? And if no one, then welcome! We can always use another spectator.

Anonymous said...

Do any of you know about a shooting that haopened somewhere in the Ontario area? the puzzling thing is that he was taken to white memorial and the homie that was with him didn't get hit. The guy that was shot five+ times is from the WS INTRUDERS Pee Wees click. Any one with 411 pls blog. R.I.P LiL Rascal INTS.

Anonymous said...

Any info on the Quilmas(san quentin)Riot? Was it nortenos versus whites? Was it surenos versus whites? Anybody hear anything else besides the what the media gave us which isn't much.

Anonymous said...

maybe it was whites and surenos versus the nortenos...

Anonymous said...

Who knows how much truth was in the paper, but it said some SUR got upset about a tattoo on a wood linking him to a varrio in So Cal, and went off on him, then the next day the woods beat up a "Mexican" as the paper called him. Ain't got any word that it was Norte's, but we'll see if it was Wood's vs SUR what that does to there relationship.

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StillNoScript said...

I saw a little bit from the San Quintin riots on the news too. No detail.

Anonymous said...

I posted a question earlier regarding a shooting of a guy from a gang called the Intruders he is from the pee wee click Tijuana Jailer or wally do you have any idea or 411 of this gang in South central L.A. By the way can you give me 411 of what happens to the gangs that were rising in the mid 80s 90s like the DEAD ENDS, STREET SAINTS, INTRUDERS, STREET VILLAINS, HANG OUT BOYS, FORTY SECOND LITTLE CRIMINALS,etc.. do they just blend in with the big carnales or do they get a chance to be in the big leagues? Any play a role in the outside or the inside?

StillNoScript said...

Here's one story on the SQ riot...

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/08/09/RIOT.TMP

SNS said...

(drag mouse all the way right while holding left click to get entire link)

Anonymous said...

Here's one story on the SQ riot...

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/08/09/RIOT.TMP

This article's gist is of a north on white fight.

Anonymous said...

Where is Wally???

StillNoScript said...

Is Wally in the San Quintin riot?

Anonymous said...

San Quentin riot was Woods vs Busters from up North.

Anonymous said...

YEAH IT SAID WOODS WERE OUT NUMBERED BUT FOUGHT BACK HARD.

Anonymous said...

"San Quentin riot was Woods vs Busters from up North"

your a bitch for net banging!

why didn't the southerners get involved on the whites behalf?

Anonymous said...

I guess a wood a sur tattoed on him and they took offence.
I hear the woods got off even being out numbered on a northerner yard. That is the way it works the Busters try and get off when they got few extra's then get served.

Anonymous said...

the reason the southerns didn't get involved is because there are no southerners there. It is a seg yard for busters.

RetiredJoker said...

Man, are you guys reading the same article I am??? Or do you guys have comprehension issues? Nowhere does it say one group got the upper hand.
It says injuries were even distributed. The only mention of being outnumbered is the guards. Come on, people. Don't just look at it, READ!

"Messick said the inmates began fighting in all four units as outnumbered guards attempted to quell the unrest using pepper spray. He said the Latinos appeared to attack the white inmates, who had apparently prepared themselves and fought back hard.

The injuries were pretty evenly distributed between the two sides, he said. "

Anonymous said...

The artical says the whiteboys fought back hard. And the as far as the buster comment thats what they are knowns as.This is not a politally correct website farmer so if you take offense to fucken bad.As far as i am concerned all post about up north are fucken gay anyways nothing going on up there very slow and boring.Unless a SURENO is kicking up dust so why dont go log on to some kind of black website and get off the SUR nuts!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

"The artical says the whiteboys fought back hard. And the as far as the buster comment thats what they are knowns as.This is not a politally correct website farmer so if you take offense to fucken bad.As far as i am concerned all post about up north are fucken gay anyways nothing going on up there very slow and boring.Unless a SURENO is kicking up dust so why dont go log on to some kind of black website and get off the SUR nuts!!!!!!!!!"

I'm looking for a link to pictures of SUR life that is hella funny! they have a black tecato from evergreen and his tore down ruca. When I find this link I'll post it so everyone can see how glamorous life is for these scrapas!

Anonymous said...

Here's the link everyone:
http://www.aliciapatterson.org/APF1602/Rodriguez/Rodriguez.html

pay special attention to Steve and his ruca and realize , you too can be like this and live the glamorous sur lifestyle with a little effort.

Anonymous said...

CAN I BE LIKE CHIVO? I WANNA BE A GROWN UP GANGSTER WHO HAS TO MOW THE LAWN SO MY MOMMA DON'T KICK ME OUT TOO!

Anonymous said...

why didn't Chivo just give black Steve a bag of heroin to mow the lawn. he had money from selling the car parts. I don't get it.

RetiredJoker said...

Damn, that should be one of those priceless ads.

Trip to TJ: 20$
Can of beer: 1$
Picture of you and topless tranvestite: Priceless!

And whats up with those funky ass L.A. dodger glasses? Did Ozone from Breakin' become a gangsta???

Anonymous said...

That ruca from Boyle heights looks good though. I sure would like to give her some of these norcal walnuts fo'sho. maybe even a peach.

Anonymous said...

"The artical says the whiteboys fought back hard. And the as far as the buster comment thats what they are knowns as.This is not a politally correct website farmer so if you take offense to fucken bad.As far as i am concerned all post about up north are fucken gay anyways nothing going on up there very slow and boring.Unless a SURENO is kicking up dust so why dont go log on to some kind of black website and get off the SUR nuts!!!!!!!!!"
so this is the fast lane huh:
http://www.aliciapatterson.org/APF1602/Rodriguez/Rodriguez.html


i'd rather be in the slow lane

Anonymous said...

Good night night mija!

Anonymous said...

To the farmer that was talking about the myate from Evergreen.Just to let you know because all you know is what you read.There are a few Niggers in EAST LA that run with the SUR but
please belive there ass is in check.And there dimenor is very diffrent from a MYA FROM South Central ok .They are low key not mouthy and know there place putting in alot of work Where as up north farmers try to act like niggers with all that inerbreeding. And all that other dicraseful shit that goes on deep in the stix!!

Anonymous said...

WASN'T STEVE'S RUCA A CHICAN

Anonymous said...

I'll stop the trash talking and get serious. Personally I think its fucked up those people in the pictures live the way they do in this country full of opportunities. I'm from the north but it pains me to see all those little mexicans living in such poverty. I try not to be like some of these pendejos who consider themselves different than raza up north. Most gang members north and south live in fucked up neighboorhoods we olny make worse for ourselves. Far as Im concerned all mexicans are my raza regardless of were they come from and it sucks to see them bad off.

Anonymous said...

"To the farmer that was talking about the myate from Evergreen.Just to let you know because all you know is what you read.There are a few Niggers in EAST LA that run with the SUR but
please belive there ass is in check.And there dimenor is very diffrent from a MYA FROM South Central ok .They are low key not mouthy and know there place putting in alot of work Where as up north farmers try to act like niggers with all that inerbreeding. And all that other dicraseful shit that goes on deep in the stix!!"

You got some issues, and maturity is a level you won't achieve.

Don Quixote said...

Hey Wally, just want to comment on your post about the juda in Mexico throwing in the towel in regards to local gangs and crime. This unfortunate situation occurs when society and the jsutice system becomes jaded,and overwhelmed with crime and enforcement. If LE dosen't have the manpower or the motivation to protect the average citizen then due to the chaos and anarchy that follows,ordinarary citizens do what they have to do to protect themselves and their families, even if that means dealing with the devil himself for survival and justice. Besides the drug trade, protection and retribution is the fuel that always keeps organized crime operating.Case in point, a few years back street vendors in the Rampart section of LA. were being harrased by gov officials due to lack of proper licencing, they didn't go away though and their numbers increased because many people have to hustle a buck someway, and total anarchy was the result.Then some vatos from 18th St and EME took over and marked on the sidewalk the vendors designated spot and taxed them monthly for protection. No more problems. On a more personell note, my 10 year old son was blindsided and knocked to the ground, his bike stolen by some 22 year old from Fresno who had a pass from the Avenues in Highland Park. I went to the local police station to make a report and was practically laughed out of the station. I then talked to some of the vatos who I had known all my life and described the attacker by tatoos and such. Two days later a car pulls up to my house with 4 hitters from the Ave's and this idiot in the back seat shitting his pants. My son saw the gravity of the situation and refused to identify the guy but they knew the prick was guilty and drove away with him. A couple of weeks later I ran into one of the vatos and asked him what took place hoping they didn't kill his ass although he deserved it. Homes tells me laughing "Naw we didn't waste him but we took him up in the hills and beat his ass silly then rammed a dozen frozen hot weinies up his culo, and told him if we see him again in the neighborhood he's history. I can go on and on but the point is that if people can't get justice from LE and if LE can't relate to the people they serve no matter how poor, and if LE can't get the manpower and support from gov't then organized crime will always flourish no matter what side of the frontera it is

Anonymous said...

----vegas gangs----

in las vegas all of the latino gangs are surenos, OR SO THEY SAY....

ive heard that in prison some Surenos from local Nevada gangs, they get into the MRU---MI RAZA UNIDA(formed in the early 90's), they claimed SUR, and it was supposed to be a like the EME, but because they used the MEXICAN EAGLE&SNAKE, as their tattoo, THE EME greelighted these MRU's, somewhere in RENO their founder&leader was "handled"

because of their lack of recruiting more soldiers into the MRU, they sufferd as they were out-numbered by PAISAS AND BB'S, and they kept fuccin' them up until they where removed from the general population.

as the 90's came to a close alot of southern california gangs started pop in NEVADA, especially in LAS VEGAS, GANGS LIKE 18ST, PSLX3, F13, WF13, BLYTHE ST., MS13, ETC. (THINK OF ANY BIG GANG FROM SO.CALI, ESPECIALLY OF LA COUNTY, THEY ARE HERE)


EVEN ALL THE HOME-MADE LOCAL GANGS HERE OF THE 702 HAVE PLEDGED ALLIANCE TO THE S.U.R.
LIKE: B.NAKED CITY X3, S.U.R.F.O.S., 3RD STREET,

SAN CHUCOS, SC SUPPOSIBLY IS THEY BIGGEST GANG HERE IN THE 702, their turf is NORTH LAS VEGAS, THE east side to be specific, they do have members spread all around the 702, THEY HAVE ALOT OF ACTIVE CHAPTERS LIKE--SC CRIMINALES,SC ST.GEORGE, SC MALDITOS, ive seen ESxSC but im not sure, SC EVILTOWN.... EVILTOWN used to hit up SANCHUCOS ET X4, OR JUST SCX4, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE FOURTH CHAPTER OF SC, THEY HAVE ALWAYS CLAIMED S.U.R

I Heard from some vato from SC CRIMINALES that, the original SC originated in burbank california in the 80's and some vatos came here to vegas and started SC.

I also heard from some from SC EVILTOWN, that the orginal varrio was from THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA, and that the Original varrio was named PACHUCOS or SAN PANCHUCOS, and when a first chapter was formed here in vegas it was renamed to SAN CHUCOS. When I asked if they once claimed NORTE, he said that he didnt know, that he wasnt sure about THAT.. But other people have told me that they did claimed NORTE, and maybe they did have fools in the MRU... but as the new chapters emerged they could resist adding the 13 to their name


the only gangs ive heard in the 702, that supposibly claim MRU are 28 street and Little locos,

LIL locos have been dead for years, and they might not even have any active youngsters

28 street used to have alot of turf on the east side of vegas, and even a chapter by the STRIP CALLED NAKED CITY. Barrio NAKED CITY broke off 28st in the early 90's, And it seems they have becomed stronger,bigger, more active than 28st. B NAKED CITY HAS ALOT OF TURF AROUND THE STRIP BOTH EAST AND WEST it, they also have alot of members on WEST LAS VEGAS

28 ST. seems like they have lost alot of turf, maybe because of their allignment with the MRU, they are now lookin DEAD like LITTLE LOCOS

questin------does ANY BODY KNOW MORE ABOUT NEVADA GANGS & THE M.R.U.?

Anonymous said...

All I know that if you know that yard in SQ you know it was like eight to one Norte and the woods always have allot of nacks, so just getting even as they got is GETTING OFF!! You know the Northerners never try that unless they got heavey numbers it a fact. I been to five level four yards and they aint never done anything there. They got the RC at SQ and a few one yards up north. But lets be real. They have never won a war.... Woods or Sur Vs. Norte.

StillNoScript said...

Regardless of the humor that a lot of you found in it; The photo essay by Joe Rodriguez is brilliant. That essay has been around a long time and has won countless awards.

They have a photo where a guy is shot and his friends, just feet away, haven't even noticed and they're laughing.

But the photo that should go down in history in that essay is the one where the guy is dangling the gun above the toddler, and letting the toddler play with it, while the wife/gf sits there and laughs.

That girl is beautiful. She looks like she could be a mother in Beverly Hills or the Hamptons. She has a smile on her face as if she coulnd't be more comfortable. You would think her source of hapiness is her man just tickling the baby and playing with it's nose. But instead it's daddy teaching the little one how to properly hold a .38.

That photo is the MONA LISA of photos displaying the reality of gang life in the urban United States. It should be displayed at galleries right next to the photo of the guy standing in front of the tanks at Tiananmen Square.

Anonymous said...

Thats probabbly not the first time he had wieners up is culo.Or excuse me a finger!

Jroc said...

before u talk about san chucos u should get a proper comment. These chapter 3's and 4's dont know shit. dont believe everything you hear from these fuckers. thats why they are where they are, they dont know shit. 20 fake st. and little ladies are dead because of san chucos, we run this town, from the jails to the streets. some of us may look old and mellow, some of us may look like your average joe, but all of us older san chucos have nothing but criminal intent on our minds, and we will fuck you up. P.s. norte comes from north town you sissy lala's

Anonymous said...

To T.J. Jailor,
For the most part an excellent write-up. I would like to point out a couple of errors. First of all, and not taking anything away from my dear friend Joe Moody, but the Task Force was in operation for approximately 6 months prior to coming on board, The Task Force went by the name Monterey Task Force (Danny Vasquez from Paroles) named it. He left out the Park part which was in fact the Monterey Park Task Force.

The name was due to the fact that the original Task Force coordinator was from the Monterey Park Police Department. The crime that caused the formation was from the Alfonso "Apache" Alvarez murder that occured in one of the City Parks in Monterey Park in Decemeber 1971. The first meeting took place in April of 1972. Joe Moody or the other person you named was not present at that meeting. There were thirteen members (Just like the eMe) and if you can locate some that was there they can verify this statement.

The name was changed in 1974 when the late Don Harris was permitted to interview "Pie Face" Ortega at the King's Lodge in Monterey Park. Don called it the Prison Gang Task Force and we went along with the change. Joe Moody replaced the person from Monterey Park (After a vote was taken by key members of the Task Force. I will not bore you with why this change was made.

It was through Joe Moody's guidence that the Task Force was able to obtain the first of two trailers that sat to the rear of the Monterey Park Police Department. In the begining with rare exception prior Monterey Park Police Officers were selected. (Several such as Joe Moody left the department and went into federal employment. Again a vote was taken on their admittence, in other words a sponser had to put his name in the box. The Prison Gangs tape by Don Harris was previewed in 1974. A follow-up tape was done by one of Don's people, Steve Mallory in 1976 on the Nuestra Familia.

I do not understand why so many persons fail to give credit where credit is due. It was the muder case in MONTEREY PARK that started the Prison Gang Task Force with the Department of Corrections personnel such as Tony Casas, Danny Vasquez and Don Elder. It was with their insight and fortitude that this Task Force came together. No other agencies within the greater L.A. area wanted to hear about the Mexican Mafia. I am not excluding Joe Ceballos from L.A.P.D. or "Buck" Buchanan fro L.A.S.O. (Later became LASD)these where just some of the thirteen original members of the MPTF.

The only tattoo that I remeber "Shotgun" Sanchez having was the skeleton (Bones of his finges and hand not filled in)of eMe on his left forearm.

Wil E. Coyote

TijuanaJailer said...

To WilECoyote:

RE: [For the most part an excellent write-up. I would like to point out a couple of errors]

(I do not understand why so many persons fail to give credit where credit is due.)

Credit is noted for the "original" EME investigators. My reference was to the main "titular" members that I was associated with. We can not forget Rich Keller and many who have followed since.

Maybe we should have a group photo and place it side by side with the original EME members. (smile)

Sorry for the lack of recognition, Coyote. Many members of the past and present "task forces" have not been mentioned but they all know who they are and all are just as worthy as any of the original CDC or Monterey Park personnel. ALL are worthy of respect and my apologies for making the comment appear as if your crew was not as important.

If you travel back to 1977, Coyote, it was the Ellen Delia homicide - NOT 'Pache Alvarez - (and Michael Delia's tv interviews) that became the "straw that broke the camel's back" with regard to accelerated EME arrests AND heightened public awareness of these guys.

And, it was a "friendly" by the name of "Mundo" who tipped us off to a telescope on the front yard of Ralph "Rafa" Mata's residence overlooking the Monterey Park P.D. trailer that led to the relocation of the PGTF headquarters.

(The only tattoo that I remeber "Shotgun" Sanchez having was the skeleton (Bones of his finges and hand not filled in)of eMe on his left forearm.)

We're viewing the latest photos of Mr. Sanchez as I type and one has his EME tattoo on his chest and the latest has his coverup job of an eagle. He has several others and let's just say he's been a busy camper since you last checked him out.

Thanks for keeping me on my toes, Coyote. It never hurts to have a peer keeping information accurate. Once a "poisonous tree" infects the garden, it's "fruit" becomes useless. (smile again)

Tijuana Jailer

Anonymous said...

To Steve, excuse me T.J.
Thanks for your rapid response. I heard that "Shotgun" was dead. He supposedly died of a brain tumor in New York. As to the name DEA Prison Gang Task Force, that name must have came after the move. To my knowledge it was always refered to as the Prison Gang Task Force. This is not to take anything away from DEA, after all it was through Joe Moody that moved the men from the caveman mentality to the "modern world" with the advent of a central place to work, not out of the trunk of their cars. By the way I got your disguised message, a person in your capacity could with a little fortitude and looking from outside the box instead of in the box find out that what sometimes "appears to be, isn't necessarily so." Since only the people involved were there know the true story, "all the rest is hearsay."
PS give IT my regards.

TijuanaJailer said...

(This is not to take anything away from DEA, after all it was through Joe Moody that moved the men from the caveman mentality to the "modern world" with the advent of a central place to work)

.... exactly my point as to what took place when DEA became the "titular" head of the Task Force. Once again, the foundation was laid by SSU and the old timers that you mentioned; the EME was introduced to the public in a big way in the botched Shotgun trial in 1973(hey, can't win them all), the Delia scene broke it wide open and the Feebee's followed with even greater successes. So, a round of applause to ALL and life goes on.

As for the name DEA PGTF, it obviously came after the move and the name is not only titular (as you should know) but often mentioned in this manner in court transcripts and not an official description. Just like Don Harris dubbed your crew the PGTF (and you went along with it), the DEA PGTF sort of evolved from court testimony (and we went along with it). Unofficially, of course.

The media also dubbed Joe Morgan as the Godfather and we all know that was NOT the case. Some media (and other erroneous web sites) mentions Joe Morgan as one of the founding fathers also (NOT true).

BTW, apparently they had a nice little "homie funeral" for Shotgun.

(I got your disguised message)

No need to get our feathers ruffled as it was just an "inside" joke that I figured you alone would decipher and not intended for elaboration or to "air out" any names or specifics.

You are correct in stating that many do not know the truth although most (prosecutors mainly) only saw the bottom line: multiple cases were lost. They were later salvaged thanks to a "good friendly" + other factors.

The Big Armenian will get a kick out of your assumption. I'm going to tell him you are constantly attempting to "pull people's pants down" (as in exposing folks) but you missed! He will tell me (and you) to keep his name out of our mouths (or message boards).

I think you will enjoy Mundo's book when it is released in September in CD form. It lacks the professional touch which even he admits but the info is great and you will enjoy the reading. It will take you down memory lane for sure.

By the way, IT sends his regards too and he says that even if he ever wanted to, he cannot have anything but love and good things to say about you! He invites you for a bowl of menudo or pozole (I think that's how you spell the latter).

Gotta make a run for the border. Be good and don't spend too much time on your pc. They say it affects our brains.

Peace .........

Tijuana Jailer

Anonymous said...

T.J. I think you are giving me more credit than I deserve. First of all I didn't mention any one specifically. The name Steve slipped out accidently as I had my book opened as well. I use a Steve H. in my book. Unless the name you are referring to is a former Secret Service Agent, and former Monterey Park Officer I do not know whom you are talking about. Also not only I but several others present and former LE Officers still believe that Morgan was selected the Godfather, we do not believe all that "friendlies" tell us, we got burned by one of our first "friendlies". You are right, Joe Morgan did not get into the eMe until several years after it began. I do not remember mentioning any other "members" in a negative way on this or any other webb sight. (Pulling the pants down)Opinions are like rectoms, everyone has one. I do not think I could change your mind no more than you or anyone else can change mine. I would like to meet IT whom ever he is, the "it" that I referred to was whom ever you got your information from.
PS I wish I still had some "feathers" to ruffle.
Wil E. Coyote

Anonymous said...

TJ and WIlle Coyote....

You guys are like two comadres, also known as busy bodies.

"I know more than you do and I was there before you"" ........ you guys need a real life.

You vatos live in a pinchi fantasy world with all your labels and you don't know shit. Stop trying to impress people and join the 21st century.

Pancho Villa, come back and straighten out your people !!!

Anonymous said...

Funny thing is that they talk all this old time stuff you could read from FOIA files or going to a LA county library and study for a minute.
I would like to ask them if they have any idea who is who and what is what now. It is like going on that knowngangs web site. Kinda crazy shit there. Like LE has any real idea what happens or happend.
I know who is in or was in, no need to pretend you do, I feel you have to be there to truly understand what goes on. I did my 15 yrs I know what it is like on a four yard and it aint nothing nice. Walking by Manual Luna's cell and seeing it pack to the brim with store. THe fist cell second tier East side Palma's that is right.

Anonymous said...

Former Homie Gone good

You are right, anonymoous LE plays the same song over and over until it is memorized and young homies began believing it is in fact true. The fact of the matter is that when it come to truth no one knows unles you were there and those who were there will tell you different story depending on the day of the month. I happen to know a few things that later came to me in legal documents and let me tell you! Too much salsa was put in the pinche taco, perhaps by the "CI" or the LE who knows. The reality is that just like past history, this was told by that who was willing to write it and we all know that shit and soil makes the plant grow.

Changing themes, I happen to be in SF this weekend (ok, so I came to see fat bold man hold hands and kiss in public) there was a Tatto Expo, and let me tell you, Most all Tatt "artist" had in there catalogues homie art, especially LA themes, even this guy from Tulsa OK! Shit, these fuckers were even selling pencil drawings for upto $100!!!! I need to go get my drawings and put the f things on Ebay

Anonymous said...

(( too much salsa was put in the pinchi taco ))

Right on! Notice two common themes with TJ and Coyote: TJ obviously is connected to "Mundo" (EME dropout) who is writing a book; Coyote says he too is writing a book. So, guess what? Between these two "know it alls" they have their agenda: to promote these books in which each seeks to advance their version as Gospel and the ONLY Gospel.

I suppose if I were inclined to hear about the EME, I'd rather hear it from a dropout with a history of truthfulness (documented history of court testimony + convictions, etc.).

Retired cops writing about bad guys just doesn't have the same credibility. These guys have more of a history of lying than the bad guys.

TJ and Coyote: get to the back of the bus and let's hear it from the horse's mouth someday!!!

Anonymous said...

ya T.J. Jailer ill tell ya something,reguarding the Peace Treaty that took affect in 1993 and ended quick. shit where i live in South Central the Racial war is on and never ended. i run in to Crips,Bloods etc Hoover Gangsters and always throw down. before a lota people werent with it cause a lota people would loose out on money from drug sales, its like fuck it, its racial now. even at the Crenshaw Plaza im always sweated by Blacks, but fuck it the wars on weather we like it or not.

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Quit Smoking said...

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Gone Fishin',

Neil

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Anonymous said...

is san chucos cool with 18st or BNC

Anonymous said...

[[INSANITY AT THE BORDER
While I was away, a regular reader sent me an item from the July 28 issue of the Tucson Citizen. According to the article, Police Commander Jesus Zamora of San Luis Colorado, a Mexican town just across the border from San Luis, Arizona, will "work with a local gang" in exchange for an "end to what they [the gang] say is police harassment." There are so many things wrong with this that it's tough to know where to start.
According to the Arizona cops, the gang (which goes un-named in the article) is responsible for smuggling drugs and illegal border crossers and committing at least two homicides. Police Commander Zamora's deal is nothing more than a declaration of unconditional surrender.]]
THEY TALKIN ABOUT WB WONDER BOYS.

WBK MEMBER STABBED 226 TIMES HIS LEADER
http://www.lacronica.com/EdicionImpresa/ejemplaresanteriores/BusquedaEjemplares.asp?numnota=192879&fecha=08/11/2002

WBK MEMBER ATTACK PO
http://www.lacronica.com/EdicionImpresa/ejemplaresanteriores/BusquedaEjemplares.asp?
numnota=180885&fecha=25/08/2002

WBK ARTICLE
http://www.lacronica.com/EdicionImpresa/ejemplaresanteriores/BusquedaEjemplares.asp?seccion=7&fecha=26/08/2002&numpagina=1&semanal=N

http://www.lacronica.com/EdicionImpresa/ejemplaresanteriores/BusquedaEjemplares.asp?numnota=181019&fecha=26/08/2002

WBK MEMBERS KILL EX COP
http://www.lacronica.com/EdicionImpresa/ejemplaresanteriores/BusquedaEjemplares.asp?numnota=292257&fecha=17/04/2004

WBK ARTICLE
http://www.lacronica.com/EdicionImpresa/ejemplaresanteriores/BusquedaEjemplares.asp?numnota=292412&fecha=18/04/2004

WBK MEMBER SHOT IN THE HEAD 23YR OLD AZ RESIDENT

http://www.lacronica.com/EdicionImpresa/ejemplaresanteriores/BusquedaEjemplares.asp?numnota=213480&fecha=22/03/2003

http://www.lacronica.com/EdicionImpresa/ejemplaresanteriores/BusquedaEjemplares.asp?numnota=213638&fecha=23/03/2003

702GangSta said...

--Vegas Gangs--
In The Hat
Let me clear something up for yall. 28st is the biggest and oldest gang out here in Vegas. Dont believe everything you hear these people dont know shit about what goes on out here. This is our back yard we run this shit We are the most feared gang out here in vegas so dont get it twisted for one sec. And who is the dumbass who said we aint go no youngsters man whoever typed that up i can tell you dont know shit. And 28st is dead because on san chucos? I laughed so hard my ribs were hurting and shit. Well anyways about the SUR we dont have nothing against them but we will be damed if we BOW DOWN to LA fuck fleas this is NEVADA 13. Fleas hate us because we punmk them all da time on the strip when we see some mothefucka with a flea hat's on. LA hates 28st because we the only gang who dont bow down to LA get that shit outa here I mean dont get me wrong we dont have nothing against surenos who keep it cool when they come out here and know where they at. But we dont like fleas who come out here thinking this there HOOD Never will that happen. And far as turf wise we still run the eastside East Las if your from vegas you should already know that

Anonymous said...

You guys are tripping if you think this is an issue. You should really trip off Fox asking the Big Man to come back to Mexico after that Big Man left mad about not being protected from the DEA. You should trip off the Border Bros. and who Bush appointed to the head of the DEA, and the Homeland Security posts when he first came in, and the reports of "is he dead" or "is he alive?"
LE runs drugs. BIG LE, on the executive level. Trust me, it's all economics and it's been bad.

Anonymous said...

were are all the nortenos n north vegas

Anonymous said...

I have some facts for you about 1 vegas gang. Thats the Varrio San Chucos Gang.Beings I am from that neighborhood and a member of MRU.1st of all San Chucos was and is originally from Vegas.It was started by 1 big homie whos name we wont mention when another vegas gang was breaking up that gang was VNT or Varrio North Town.When it broke up 2 new gangs were started San Chucos & Lil Locos.Of course the only one that realy matters is the Big SxC.When it was created it was BSC "No Mas". meaning BSC "thats it".Not north or south. And no SC never claimed north or x4. A few missguided members from chapter 2 claimed north for a minute because we are from north las vegas.And for the MRU. Well all I got to say about is man the only part you got right about that is that MRU is a small click and allways was.The reason for this is because in order to be a member of the MRU you have to do more than pledge alliance.unlike the "South Siders" man its no wonder thers so many of them when they hit vatos up theyre like whats up ese you a south sider? and if you say yes wich I never have but have seen it go down then they are like orale ese im so and so and the homie so and so's over there.And its one big party.So when it comes to us getting fucked up Lets remember it took the "south siders" "border brothers" "paisas" and the "cubans"! to fuck us up. and the only reason our recruiting slowed down was because the prison administration found it easier to solve the problem by locking dowm the 5 or 6 MRU's on the yard and sending us back to ely max therefore leaving the yards open to the southsiders to politic against us. And with none of us down there to argue the south siders story is all allot of these new cats know.90%of the southsiders in prison have never even met anybody from MRU. and thats the end of this lesson for all you vatos out there that are ignorant about the Big Varrio San Chucos Gang! P.S. MRU never was meant to be like the Eme.The tatoo represents our raza. And MRU has been around allot longer than the 90's and was created to stick together against other races who outnumbered us about 50 to 1 because we usually were no morte than 6 or 7 of us on each yard if that and holding them down for years

Anonymous said...

what?