Saturday, August 13, 2005

CIs, INTEL AND THE CONSENT DECREE
Today's LA TIMES ran a story about a policy change regarding use of informants by LAPD uniformed cops. The story is a little cloudy on the facts. Apparently the LAPD asked the federal monitor Michael Cherkasky for permission to let uniformed gang cops develop informants. The DOJ, Cherkasky and US District Court Judge Gary Feess gave the LAPD permission to do so.

What's not mentioned in the article is whether this permission slip will allow uniformed gang cops to pay CIs for information. The truth is, with or without permision from authorities, uniformed gang cops have never stopped using street informants. It's part of what they do as gang cops. Developing gang intelligence would be next to impossible without informants.

It's no big secret that within hours after a gang-related shooting or a homicide, gang cops usually get strong leads on the shooter(s) and the motive from contact with informants. The key to a filing is whether informants have first-hand knowledge of the incident or whether it's hearsay and thus inadmissible in court. The other obstacle is whether the informant is willing to come forward and testify in court in a case where he or she has first-hand knowledge of the crime.

The LAT article mentions that the ACLU has concerns about this "new" CI policy. The fear is that street informants or cops could put a case on a innocent party out of personal retribution or internal gang squabble. This is a genuine concern. I just witnessed a case where a CI made up a story out of whole cloth and basically framed a defendant in a murder case. It turns out the defendant was guilty anyway and eventually copped a plea in exchange for a reduced sentence. But the fact remains that the CI was lying and will probably be charged with perjury. So the danger is there. You can see where the possibility exists of an innocent guy being set up and framed not necessarily by police, but by his own crimies.

We know how slick some players can get. It's not out of the realm of possibility that three of four criminals conspire to kill somebody, agree to finger some guy they want out of the picture to clean up their books and conspire to put the case on him.

The use of CIs can cut both ways. It can make huge cases like the Aguirre and Detevis federal RICO cases but it can also take cases completely off the rails and make LE look like fools and maybe send innocent defendants to jail. Street cops may not like it, but the solution is to impose rigid guidelines, provide close supervision and evaluate the validity of information at every step of the process right up to a DA's filing. We've seen first-hand how the best intentioned investigations conducted by straight-arrow, ethical cops can go completely sideways based on believable but ultimately bad information. It's rare, or course, but all it takes is one bad case to put the entire issue back on shelf and remove a potentially valuable tool of law enforcement. The Perez case was a once in a lifetime incident and look what it do to the city. We're still paying for it.

129 comments:

Anonymous said...

Remeber the famous CI in the county jail back in the eighties, Westly White I think was his name. He ended up turning on the DA and then ran the whole story down to reporters and it ended up on 48 hours or something. He just asked the Sheriff to place him in the cell next to the guy, then would get the DA to give him the case file then he would make up a whole story about how he was told everything by the defendant.

Anonymous said...

C.I.'S are most likely people that are looking out for themselves,they have no worries about what goes on in the community,they just want the money and are willing to say anything to get a buck,they sellout,i've heard of C.I.'s making up stuff based on their own suspicions,thinking that LE is gonna raid and find MONEY and DRUGS,and that LE is gonna give them a percentage of the value.People have been raided and nothing has been found,and that is a SHAME!These gang officers should not have the right to play detective,they are not qualified for that,as it is they come to my neighborhood (EL SERENO)and assume everybody is dealing drugs or gang banging,now with that mind set that they have,and these people snitching for money or making up stories to get a C.I. check!!Things are bound to go wrong,as it is people get arrested and blamed for things they have not done,and it happens alot,they see a kid that might look like a street kid and here they come,harrasssing kids,putting them on the gang file,when they know exactly what they are doing,and it's called lying,LE makes shit up so it looks like they are doing something(dont get me wrong they do their job)but when it's all calm,NO DRIVE BY'S,NO MURDERS,THE STREETS ARE QUITE!!!LE comes around punking everybody acting like a gang them selves!they want to keep the shit going!!so that the streets still seem crazy,and they won't get sent to a real gangbanging neighborhood,
so nomatter what EL SERENO is gonna stay a bad neighborhood,in the eyes of their CAPTAINS,so that they could have it easy,and feel safe in a neighborhood that is safe,all the while they make shit up,and with those C.I.'s it will be just worst,I thought POLICE OFFICERS were doing the POLICING,not HYPES that will lie to make a buck,sometimes it does pay off,but c'mon,who's policing,instead of hunting down gangmembers when they are not doing anything,they should go after the gangs that are banging!and not play detective,wich they are not,why are they even getting personal grudges with certain people,and going the extra mile to get one person,when across town the shit is hitting the fan,GANG UNITS SHOULD PATROL GANG HOT SPOTS!
and should not harrass every kid they see,cause when they do that the streets get one more recruit,ive seen GANG UNITS with notes of gangmembers with phone numbers,girlfreinds names and adress,they even ask for social security numbers,what for?

Anonymous said...

MOSTLY TRUE!!!!!
but no one will listen,things will get worst,and these cops with all that machismo will always win.Nobody cares,the cops know that

HOLLENBECK RESIDENT!!!

Anonymous said...

The Operative Word in any case is:

CORROBORATION

KAM

Anonymous said...

CORROBORATION, my butt...
I know detective perjure their selves all the time. I had a case were I was guilty as sin but there was no way to prove anything and the snitch had no CORROBORATING evidence and the Cop lied and got caught. Beat the case, it was funny the opening line of the DA was "a crime comitted in Hell has no angels for witnesses."

StillNoScript said...

It seems to me that gang violence in the Los Angeles region went down in the 1990s; And this during a time when people accuse the city of L.A. of IMMASCULATING the police force in the name of political correctness.

So, if the police were immasculated, and gang violence still went down, could it possibly be that a robust middle class job market might have kept the violence down?

Seems to me when there's descent paying jobs within reach, a lot of homies decide the working life is better than the gangster life. Not all, but MANY, and enough to bring down the numbers of violent crimes.

So, my answer would be to take an idea that comedian Lewis Black mentioned on his stand up show; When the economy is bad; BUILD SOMETHING. Anything. A stupid thing that people will just show up to and spend money. And then hire people to work there at a good wage, and then they'll put that money back into the community, and things will get better.

We've tried tough, hard nosed policing, that didn't work. (See: Darryl Gates)

We tried p.c., rather it worked or not it's constantly BLAMED for every obstacle that faces police officers today, so that didn't work either.

So why not try what HAS worked? Why not work on any kind of legislation at both the state and federal level that would support a middle class job market? If our state and federal government looked out for people who just want to work for 50k a year, buy a station wagon, marry some chick, raise a family, and then die, more than they look out for the big corporations who are continuously outsourcing their labor and leaving nothing for people here, I'd imagine this gang problem would start to take care of itself.

But, by all means, we have no time for solutions that will work. Let's get back to strategies on how to round up the 'evil' gang bangers and...'terrorists'.. so The Hiltons won't have to worry about their Escalade breaking down on the 101 in the Rampart area anymore.

Anonymous said...

Unfortunately there are plenty of good ideas that could and often work. The problem is the big suits and the brass upstairs who fuck it all up. And if there are any LE (which I am sure there is) reading this blogg they will know what I mean. It seems that some people or interest groups have made some branches of LE; especially prisons and probation and parole that therapy is the way to solving the problems (and finding the wizard of OZ). I have began hearing of training going were “staff” are encourage to actively listen and interview. For those who don’t know the crap is called Motivational Interview. This concept is supposed to make you more sympathetic to the “client” to a point where the client will feel so understood by you that he/she will tell you how he/she will change his/her life.

I think crime will soon become a psychological diagnosis. Waiting to hear responses.

Spikey

Anonymous said...

Sometimes I went to good and plenty ideas and often work there. What problem? That's the big suits with the brass who went upstairs who fucked. Why not and then some LE (sure they went) Read on. Blogg it up. They know. Don't trip. What I mean is, it seems somehow that some people have went branch, if not, then LE; especially now, when the prisons are crowded and probation is a must and parole aint fun, but funner than before. That's the therapy to solve it. (not some wizard). Begin like this, train those cats to be "staff", not some encouragers. Tune in and listen to the interview, and if they're active then watch it. For those who don’t, then get some motivation. Conceptual discouragement is supposed to always make first choice. More people say “client”, but some say "customer" when they point at where they're at, and then nobody is so understood. This can change you, or your life. Make it happy.

Think about crime as well as psychological. Diagnose, treat, cure. Speak back respond in dual.

Spikey Forthright

Anonymous said...

CI'S WHo needs em when you got cats like Chuco Castro.

Appellants were named in a thirty-one-count superseding indictment charging them and ten others. [FOOTNOTE 1] The charges stemmed from Appellants' involvement with the Mexican Mafia. At trial, the government presented voluminous evidence, including: (1) approximately 275 audiotapes of conversations between the defendants and their coconspirators, including wiretaps on the phones of J. Hernandez, consensual recordings of telephone conversations and face-to-face meetings, and recordings made at the Los Angeles County Jail and Pelican Bay State Prison in California; (2) approximately 125 witnesses, including law enforcement officers, forensic experts, former Mexican Mafia members Ernesto Castro ("E. Castro" ) and Johnny Torres ("Torres" ), and former Mexican Mafia associate James Prado ("Prado" ); and (3) fourteen videotapes of meetings between Mexican Mafia members.

A. The Mexican Mafia's Structure and Operation

Los Angeles County Sheriff's Deputy Richard Valdemar ("Deputy Valdemar" ), an expert witness, testified that the Mexican Mafia is a prison gang formed in the 1950s by Hispanic street gang members incarcerated at the Deuel Vocational Institution, located in Tracy, California. The founding members formed the organization to protect Hispanics from other such gangs within California's jails and prisons. By using violence, the Mexican Mafia eventually gained significant power and control over illegal activities in the California prison system. As members were released from state custody, they extended their influence outside the prison system to control drug distribution--principally by "taxing" drug dealers--in parts of Southern California.

At the time of trial, Deputy Valdemar testified that the Mexican Mafia had 250 to 300 members. In addition, the gang had numerous associates who aspired to become members and were willing to commit crimes on the Mexican Mafia's behalf in hopes of attaining membership. Deputy Valdemar identified J. Hernandez as an associate, and the other Appellants as members of the Mexican Mafia.

E. Castro testified that defendant Benjamin Peters ("Peters" ) prepared him for membership in the Mexican Mafia while both were incarcerated at the California Institution for Men, located in Chino, California ("Chino State Prison" ). He recounted Peters's explanation to him of the route to membership: "If the mafia has any enemies, that they' re also my enemies, so long as I take care of them by stabbing them, then that would deem me eventually a member." The Mexican Mafia required a vote of three members to make a new member or murder an existing member, but did not require a vote for a member to kill a nonmember.

E. Castro and Torres testified for the prosecution that Mexican Mafia members had to follow four rules: a Mexican Mafia member cannot (1) be an informant; (2) be a homosexual; (3) be a coward; or (4) disrespect or politick against another member. Death was the automatic consequence for violation of any of the first three rules, and only a member could carry out the murder of another. While in prison, the Mexican Mafia expected its members to engage in drug trafficking, extortion, and any other activity to acquire money and exert power and control over other inmates. Outside prison, Mexican Mafia members met regularly to discuss and vote on actions in furtherance of the members' illegal activities.

According to E. Castro, Mexican Mafia members communicated in prison by having meetings in the exercise yard, sending messages through visitors or inmates who were transferred between prisons, and passing small notes known as "kites" or "wilas." E. Castro further testified that Mexican Mafia members operated under a "code of silence," which obligated them to deny any membership in or knowledge of the organization. Because of this code, E. Castro stated that he testified in a previous case involving R. Hernandez and falsely denied the existence of the Mexican Mafia and R. Hernandez's membership in it.

B. Specific Crimes

Summarized below from the evidence are some relevant events in chronological order underlying the charges in the indictment.

1. Conspiracy and Attempted Murder of Salvador Buenrostro

On July 16, 1991, Peters and Mexican Mafia member Rene "Boxer" Enriquez attacked with premeditation and deliberation Salvador "Mon" Buenrostro, another Mexican Mafia member, in the attorney visiting room at the Los Angeles County Jail. Although stabbed twenty-six times, Buenrostro survived the attack.

E. Castro testified that he was incarcerated in the Los Angeles County Jail at the time of the attack, and that Peters told him Buenrostro was on the Mexican Mafia's hit list because Buenrostro had politicked against deceased member Joe Morgan. To prearrange for the attack, Prado, a Mexican Mafia associate, manipulated the justice system by causing Buenrostro to be subpoenaed to the Los Angles County Jail from another institution, allegedly to testify in Prado's upcoming trial, and placed a "hold" on Peters to prevent Peters from being transferred to another jail. At Peters's request, Prado made a shank (prison knife) and gave it to Peters to use in the attack. Likewise, E. Castro made a knife and provided it to Enriquez. Enriquez then arranged for jail authorities to call himself, Peters, and Buenrostro to the attorney visiting room simultaneously. Once there, Peters and Enriquez attacked Buenrostro while Enriquez shouted "kill him."

The indictment charged the conspiracy and attempted murder of Buenrostro as a racketeering act underlying the substantive RICO charge, and the jury found the crimes proven as to Peters.

2. Conspiracy and Murder of Charles Manriquez

On March 25, 1992, Gallardo shot and killed Mexican Mafia member Charles "Charlie Brown" Manriquez in the Ramona Gardens housing project ("Ramona Gardens" ). Gallardo shot Manriquez six times. The police recovered several .380-caliber semi-automatic shell casings at the scene and three .380-caliber bullets from Manriquez's body.

E. Castro testified that in 1991 while at Chino State Prison, E. Castro, Manriquez, and other Mexican Mafia members agreed to stab two individuals named "Colorado" and "Smiley." E. Castro stabbed "Colorado," but Manriquez failed to stab "Smiley" despite two opportunities to do so. When Peters later transferred to Chino State Prison, E. Castro informed him of Manriquez's cowardice. Peters told E. Castro to do whatever he felt was right, which E. Castro interpreted as meaning he could kill Manriquez.

About a week after his release from custody, E. Castro met separately with Gallardo and Therrien, who agreed that they should kill Manriquez (now also out of custody) for his cowardice. Gallardo agreed to do the killing. E. Castro obtained a handgun from Therrien and gave it to Gallardo. One week later, Gallardo told E. Castro that he shot Manriquez in the face and when Manriquez turned and ran, he shot him in the back.

The indictment charged the conspiracy and murder of Manriquez as a racketeering act, and the jury found the crimes proven as to Gallardo, Peters, and Therrien. The jury also convicted (1) Gallardo and Therrien of Manriquez's murder to maintain or increase their positions in a RICO enterprise; and (2) Gallardo of knowingly carrying and using a firearm during and in relation to the murder.

3. Murder of Ana Lizarraga

E. Castro testified that in 1990 he attended a meeting during which Gallardo indicated his desire to kill Ana Lizarraga because she was a police informant and was interfering with his drug trafficking in Ramona Gardens. Lizarraga was a youth gang worker and had acted in Edward James Olmos's movie "American Me," a fictionalized account of a California Hispanic prison gang based on the Mexican Mafia that some members of the real Mexican Mafia believed negatively portrayed their organization.

On May 13, 1992, Jose "Joker" Gonzales, a Hazard gang member, [FOOTNOTE 2] and an unidentified gunman shot Lizarraga thirteen times, killing her. Los Angeles Police Department ("LAPD" ) Officer Thomas Lira was nearby at the time of the shooting and heard several gunshots. He drove toward the gunshots and observed two masked men fire at Lizarraga while she stood in her driveway with her son. As Lizarraga fell to the ground, the gunmen walked closer to her and continued to shoot. When the shooting ceased, the suspects turned and ran toward Officer Lira's patrol car. One suspect pointed his gun at Officer Lira, who ducked and accelerated his vehicle to avoid being shot. Police arrested Gonzales minutes after the shooting, and a California court subsequently convicted him of first-degree murder.

At a January 1995 meeting, Gallardo told E.Castro that he wanted to sponsor Gonzales to become a Mexican Mafia member because Gonzales had killed Lizarraga. In addition, during an audiotaped visit at Pelican Bay State Prison on December 31, 1994, Peters told his mother, Paz Gutierrez, that "[Gonzales was] . . . . the one that killed that lady in the projects. The one that made the movies with, with Olmos."

The indictment charged Lizarraga's murder as a racketeering act, and the jury found the crime proven as to Gallardo.

4. Conspiracy and Murder of Manuel Luna

On August 7, 1993, Aguirre shot and killed Mexican Mafia member Manuel "Rocky" Luna. The police found Luna's body riddled with gunshot wounds in the driver's seat of a car parked in Ramona Gardens.

E. Castro testified that an informant named "Mad Dog" Roselli had been placed on the Mexican Mafia hit list. On July 4, 1993, E. Castro, Gallardo, Aguirre, and another Mexican Mafia member saw Roselli at a park. E. Castro wanted to kill Roselli, but Gallardo interceded and told him that Luna had the assignment to kill him. Subsequently, E. Castro saw Luna with Roselli twice but Luna failed to kill Roselli. E. Castro raised Luna's failure to carry out his assignment during a meeting with Gallardo, Therrien, and other Mexican Mafia members. After the members present raised other complaints about Luna, they voted to kill him.

The following day, Gallardo told E. Castro that Luna was dead. E. Castro testified that Aguirre told him he killed Luna, and that Gallardo, Therrien, and another Mexican Mafia member were present. Aguirre explained that initially they wanted to stab Luna, but Gallardo objected that stabbing would create too much noise and blood. Instead, Gallardo furnished a gun, which Aguirre used to shoot Luna. E. Castro also testified that when he saw Gallardo at Arias's house a week after Aguirre killed Luna, Gallardo admitted he had hid the barrel of the gun used in the murder at the house.

A September 3, 1994 audiotaped visit at Pelican Bay State Prison between Peters and Paz Gutierrez corroborated E. Castro's testimony. During a conversation regarding Gallardo's problems in Ramona Gardens, Gutierrez told Peters that "Hazard was in, was in a lot of trouble." Peters responded, "It's behind Rocky [Luna], when they killed Rocky. And then they killed Rascal [Ricardo Gonzales] and they, they, and they thought Smilon (Gallardo) did it."

The indictment charged the conspiracy and murder of Luna as a racketeering act, and the jury found the crimes proven as to Aguirre, Gallardo, and Therrien. The jury also convicted (1) Aguirre, Gallardo, and Therrien of Luna's murder to maintain or increase their positions in a RICO enterprise; and (2) Aguirre of knowingly carrying and using a firearm during and in relation to the murder.

5. Conspiracy to Murder Michael Perry

E. Castro testified that R. Hernandez told him he felt disrespected by Michael "Flaco" Perry, a Mexican Mafia member. R. Hernandez told E. Castro that he arranged for Perry to stay with a friend named Charlene. While there, Perry engaged in inappropriate sexual behavior in front of Charlene's children. Shortly before E. Castro was released from prison in 1990 or 1991, R. Hernandez asked him to kill Perry.

During a meeting in 1993, attended by Aguirre, Therrien, and other Mexican Mafia members, E. Castro relayed what R. Hernandez had told him. All present agreed Perry should be killed. They planned another meeting to which they would lure and kill Perry, but he failed to appear. Later, the group met at the home of Mexican Mafia member Raul "Dagwood" Vasquez ("Vasquez" ) and reaffirmed the decision to kill Perry. During that meeting, Vasquez telephoned another Mexican Mafia member, Frank Buelna, and told him that Perry had to be killed.

The indictment charged the conspiracy to murder Perry as a racketeering act, and the jury found the crime proven as to Gallardo and Therrien.

6. Murder of Ricardo Gonzales

On December 5, 1993, police found the body of Ricardo "Rascal" Gonzales in Ramona Gardens. He died of multiple stab wounds and blunt force trauma to the head. Ricardo Gonzales was a Hazard gang member and brother of Mexican Mafia member Jose "Joker" Gonzales (who killed Ana Lizarraga for Gallardo).

On December 7, 1993, E. Castro recorded a conversation at Vasquez's home, during which Gallardo and Vasquez told E. Castro that Gonzales was stabbed during a shootout with Hazard gang members. Gallardo explained he went to Ramona Gardens to "make[ ] a point" because Hazard gang members were interfering with his drug trafficking operations in the area. Notably, Gallardo singled out "Capone" (Humberto Madrigal) and "Conrad" (Conrad Morales) as "instigating everything." Gallardo confronted and fired shots at some Hazard gang members, who returned fire. Gallardo stated, "[Gonzales] was right there Joker's brother . . . I don' t think I shot [Gonzales] . . . you know it was Joker's brother, he didn' t have that coming, it's just everything came at us, Boom!" Gallardo also told E. Castro that he wanted him to know the circumstances of Gonzales's death because "whatever happens, man, you know Joker's probably just gonna trip, what the fuck happen, you know, but it was just something that just unfolded right there man, it's fucked up, but I mean he brought that on himself, ay. You know."

Later in the recorded conversation, Vasquez picked up a switch-blade knife, made downward stabbing motions, and stated "This is the one I killed his homeboy with." E. Castro testified that "his homeboy" referred to Ricardo Gonzales.

The indictment charged the murder of Ricardo Gonzales as a racketeering act, and the jury found the crime proven as to Gallardo. The jury also convicted Gallardo of Gonzales's murder to maintain or increase his position in a RICO enterprise.

7. Conspiracy and Attempted Murder of Humberto Madrigal

As noted above, during a recorded conversation on December 7, 1993, Gallardo told E. Castro that Humberto "Capone" Madrigal instigated problems for Gallardo in Ramona Gardens. On January 13, 1994, Madrigal was walking home when Gallardo shot him fourteen times from the passenger side of a moving vehicle. Madrigal survived.

E. Castro testified that in two separate conversations, Gallardo and Mexican Mafia member Antonio "Tonito" Rodriguez ("Rodriguez" ) told him that they went to Ramona Gardens looking for Madrigal, and that Gallardo shot Madrigal several times. Rodriguez related to E. Castro that they had been in a car, and that Gallardo reached across the passenger's window and started shooting at Madrigal.

LAPD Detective Lawrence Martinez testified that he interviewed Madrigal at the hospital three days after he was shot, and Madrigal identified Gallardo as the shooter. In December 1994, Detective Martinez re-interviewed Madrigal at Madrigal's home and showed him a photographic lineup. Madrigal again identified Gallardo as the shooter.

Because of Madrigal's identification, the government initiated parole revocation proceedings against Gallardo. At both the revocation hearing and the trial here, however, Madrigal testified that he did not know who shot him. Substantial evidence at trial proved that Madrigal refused to identify Gallardo after receiving threats from Aguirre and other Mexican Mafia members. For instance, in a recorded call on January 6, 1995, Gallardo telephoned J. Hernandez and informed him, "[Madrigal] . . . he's no longer scared to testify against me" in the parole revocation proceeding. An hour later, J. Hernandez called Rodriguez to communicate a message that Gallardo wanted to talk to him about Madrigal's testimony and related the substance of his and Gallardo's earlier conversation. Rodriguez instructed J. Hernandez to get Aguirre on the telephone. J. Hernandez did so, and during a three-way call Rodriguez informed Aguirre of Gallardo's situation. In another recorded call on January 10, 1995, Aguirre reported to Rodriguez that he had spoken to Madrigal and persuaded him not to testify. Rodriguez emphasized that "this is an important thing," and Aguirre responded that he "took care of that already." During a videotaped meeting on January 28, 1995, E. Castro asked about Madrigal and Aguirre responded, "I talked to him on the phone . . . . I told him . . . rumor has it, that you know, that you said somethin' about you know, [Gallardo] this and that and the dude said hey, man, I ain' t said nothin' about him . . . I' ll go [to] court and help him out."

The indictment charged the conspiracy and attempted murder of Madrigal as a racketeering act, and the jury found the crimes proven as to Gallardo. The jury also convicted Gallardo of (1) assaulting Madrigal with a deadly weapon to maintain or increase his position in a RICO enterprise; and (2) knowingly carrying and using a firearm during and in relation to the assault.

8. Conspiracy and Attempted Murder of Eduardo

Soriano

On February 22, 1994, LAPD officers responded to a report of shots fired at the Ramona Gardens home of Ricardo and Eduardo Soriano. Paramedics found Arias on a curb suffering from four gunshot wounds, and transported him to the hospital. Paramedics also transported Eduardo Soriano to the hospital with a gunshot wound to the hand. Officers found nine 9-millimeter casings in front of the house and several bullet holes in the wall below Ricardo and Eduardo's bedroom window. There were also several bullet marks in the pavement where shots fired from inside the house had struck the ground. Arias's van was parked in a nearby lot and the police recovered the van's keys next to some trash cans. Inside the van, officers found a box of 9-millimeter ammunition that was missing nine rounds (the exact number of casings found in front of the house). Near the house, officers recovered a 9-millimeter handgun and a .38 caliber revolver with six empty casings in the cylinder.

On the following day, Rodriguez told E. Castro in a recorded conversation that Gallardo and Arias had gone to Ramona Gardens looking for the Soriano brothers, and that Arias had been shot in the resulting exchange of gunfire. Arias subsequently pled guilty to shooting at an inhabited dwelling in violation of California state law.

The indictment charged the conspiracy and attempted murder of Soriano as a racketeering act, and the jury found the crimes proven as to Arias and Gallardo. The jury also convicted (1) Arias and Gallardo of assaulting Soriano with a deadly weapon to maintain or increase their positions in a RICO enterprise; and (2) Arias of knowingly carrying and using a firearm during and in relation to the assault.

9. Murder of Albert Orosco, and Attempted Murders of Hector Galvez and Freddie Garcia

Albert Orosco, Hector Galvez, and Freddie Garcia were members of the Chino Sinners street gang. On March 13, 1994, an unidentified assailant shot Garcia in the leg. On March 14, 1994, Larry Hernandez shot Galvez and Orosco multiple times. Galvez survived, but Orosco died.

During a recorded conversation on March 21, 1994, Shryock told E. Castro, "I sent them dudes to kill [Orosco] . . . and [Galvez] . . . they got off, and Freddie [Garcia] got shot in the leg . . . . [S]ome dude named Larry did it." Shryock further stated that because Galvez, Garcia, and Orosco were "puttin' [guns] on little kids heads and hitting old women . . . to take their money," he spoke to the alleged victims, and

told ' em look, man, don' t give ' em no fuckin'
money no more, I said . . . and the next time you see ' em, if you want to, go ahead and kill them . . . . [S]o that's what they did. The[ ] next time he came to collect from somebody he blew him away. They, they killed [Orosco] and, and [Galvez]. . . . And so [Garcia] is the only one that's loose. [FOOTNOTE 3]

Shryock made similar statements at the videotaped March 27, 1994 meeting. This version of the events was supported by E. Castro's discussion of the incident with Paz Gutierrez, who told him that a guy named Larry killed Orosco and shot Galvez because Larry was tired of being taxed.

The indictment charged the conspiracy and murder of Orosco, conspiracy and attempted murder of Galvez, and conspiracy and attempted murder of Garcia as racketeering acts. The jury found the crimes proven as to Shryock, and also convicted Shryock of (1) Orosco's murder to maintain or increase his position in a RICO enterprise; (2) assault on Galvez to maintain or increase his position in a RICO enterprise; and (3) assault on Garcia to maintain or increase his position in a RICO enterprise.

10. Conspiracy to Murder Jesse Aragon

At the videotaped March 27, 1994 meeting, Shryock, Barela and other Mexican Mafia members discussed killing Mexican Mafia member Jesse "Sleepy" Aragon. The members at the meeting decided to kill Aragon because he failed to carry out his assignment to kill a witness against another Mexican Mafia member, and he questioned the decision to kill Mexican Mafia member Phillip "Gibby" Escobar. [FOOTNOTE 4] At the videotaped March 30, 1994 meeting, the members present assigned Escobar to kill Aragon, and Shryock offered to provide a weapon. On April 5, 1994, Escobar met with Art Aguilar, a Shryock associate, who provided Escobar with a gun. Law enforcement arrested Aragon, however, before he could be killed.

The indictment charged the conspiracy to murder Aragon as a racketeering act, and the jury found the crime proven as to Barela and Shryock. The jury also convicted Barela and Shryock of conspiracy to murder Aragon to maintain or increase their positions in a RICO enterprise.

11. Conspiracy to Murder Francisco Martinez

At the videotaped March 27 and 30, 1994 meetings, Barela, R. Castro, Moreno, Shryock, Therrien, and other Mexican Mafia members discussed killing Francisco "Puppet" Martinez, a Mexican Mafia member incarcerated at Pelican Bay State Prison. These conspirators decided to kill Martinez because he was politicking against other members, threatening to kill other members, claimed to have made an individual a member without following the proper procedure, and for generally causing dissension within the organization. Accordingly, the conspirators devised a plan to invite Martinez to a meeting as a pretext and kill him. Law enforcement, however, arrested Martinez before he could be killed.

The indictment charged the conspiracy to murder Martinez as a racketeering act, and the jury found the crime proven as to Barela, R. Castro, Moreno, Shryock, and Therrien. The jury also convicted the same Appellants of conspiracy to murder Martinez to maintain or increase their positions in a RICO enterprise.

12. Conspiracy to Murder Danilo Garcia

Between October and December 1994, government agents intercepted telephone calls in which R. Castro and J. Hernandez plotted to kill Danilo Garcia, an inmate at the Los Angeles County Jail. Law enforcement placed Garcia in protected custody, thwarting any attempts to kill him.

The indictment charged the conspiracy to murder Garcia as a racketeering act, and the jury found the crime proven as to R. Castro and J. Hernandez. The jury also convicted the same Appellants of conspiracy to murder Garcia to maintain or increase their positions in a RICO enterprise.

13. Conspiracy to Murder Donald Ortiz

At the videotaped September 25, 1994 meeting, Arias, Barela, Mendez, Therrien, and Shryock reaffirmed an earlier decision to kill Mexican Mafia member Donald "Little Man" Ortiz because Ortiz had "disrespected" the Mexican Mafia. This decision was also reaffirmed at the videotaped April 9, 1995 meeting, attended by Aguirre, R. Castro, Gallardo, Mendez, Shryock, and Therrien. By April 1995, however, the jail where Ortiz was incarcerated placed him in protective custody and no Mexican Mafia member had access to him. Accordingly, Gallardo proposed an exception to the rule that only a member could kill another, and to permit an associate to carry out the murder. The members present agreed and decided to have someone subpoena Ortiz to court as a pretext, so that an associate from the gang module where Ortiz was housed could kill him.

The indictment charged the conspiracy to murder Ortiz as a racketeering act, and the jury found the crime proven as to Aguirre, Barela, R. Castro, Gallardo, J. Hernandez, Mendez, Shryock, and Therrien. The jury also convicted the same Appellants of conspiracy to murder Ortiz to maintain or increase their positions in a RICO enterprise.

14. Conspiracy to Murder Ramiro Valerio

Ramiro "Greedy" Valerio was collecting money from drug dealers by claiming he was a member of the Mexican Mafia. At the videotaped March 27, 1994 meeting, the members present clarified that Valerio was not a member and therefore had no authority to collect money or act on the Mexican Mafia's behalf. Consequently, R. Castro and other Mexican Mafia members discussed plans to kill Valerio. Because Valerio wore thick glasses, the members dubbed their murder plot "Operation Coke Bottle."

On November 21, 1994, R. Castro called Rodriguez to advise him that the police had arrested Valerio and he was in jail, so R. Castro now had the opportunity to kill him. During subsequent conversations, R. Castro devised a plan to kill Valerio while in custody. Law enforcement, however, intercepted these calls and foiled "Operation Coke Bottle" by placing Valerio in protective custody.

The indictment charged the conspiracy to murder Valerio as a racketeering act, and the jury found the crime proven as to R. Castro. The jury also convicted R. Castro of conspiracy to murder Valerio to maintain or increase his position in a RICO enterprise.

15. Conspiracy to Murder Conrad Morales

Gallardo disliked Conrad Morales, a Hazard gang member, because he interfered with Gallardo's drug trafficking in Ramona Gardens. During a recorded conversation on November 28, 1993, Gallardo told E. Castro that Morales and his wife "should not get away with living another new years. . . . [B]ecause they are laughing at us every day." At a meeting on January 25, 1994, Raul Vasquez discussed the need to kill Morales, to which Gallardo replied "That's right." At the videotaped March 30, 1994 meeting, the participants again raised the issue of killing Morales. R. Castro offered to send "crews" to shoot any Hazard gang members that the Mexican Mafia decided to kill. Shryock then identified Morales as a target, to which R. Castro responded: "He can be reduced to nothing real quick though. . . . he's targeted." At a subsequent videotaped meeting, on April 30, 1994, Barela, Moreno, and Shryock stated that Morales had to be killed to end the hostilities between the Mexican Mafia and the Hazard street gang.

The indictment charged the conspiracy to murder Morales as a racketeering act, and the jury found the crime proven as to Barela, R. Castro, Gallardo, Moreno, and Shryock. The jury also convicted the same Appellants with conspiracy to murder Morales to maintain or increase their positions in a RICO enterprise.

16. Conspiracy to Aid and Abet the Distribution of

Anonymous said...

The funny thing is the Big Hommies do not talk all that ese Vato and that shit. If you been around em they talk kinda like white guys. "Man and dude"

Anonymous said...

What in the hell is Spikey talking about?

Anonymous said...

Chuco was a CI. What's your point in posting the whole 95 indictment?

RetiredJoker said...

Don't know if you guys heard about this but in Guatemala there were some huge prison riots that were caused by MS and 18th street. 35 inmates killed as these two rivals battled each other in 7 different prisons. Looks like it was coordinated. Man, you thought California pens were crazy, these guys are nuts. Every heard of any vatos using grenades in Folsom???

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050817/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/guatemala_prison_riots

Also, I saw on ABC world news tonight about a FBI probe into gang members turned muslim plotting a terroist acts in New Folsom. Interesting stuff that leads to lots of "Gangmembers and Terrosists" posts on this very blog. Tj, No script?

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investigation/story?id=1042853&page=1

Wally, you still on Vacation or are you slipping in your old age?? Come on, keep up with the news!! I know you have plenty of time on your hands!! ;o)

Anonymous said...

I have new copies of the Art Blajos book, Blood In, Blood Out... anyone interested post a comment or email me @:
Thrasher927@yahoo.com

Anonymous said...

(Chuco was a CI. What's your point in posting the whole 95 indictment?)

Nahhh, we don't need CI's, do we?
Arrests will just materialize like manna from heaven.

Sancha said...

It seems to me the point is, yeah the CI's help, but there's a helluva lot of other technology assisting in the indictment of these guys. You can arrest 'em all you want, on whatever charge; the key is making it stick with evidence that will be admissible in court.

TijuanaJailer said...

[Man, you thought California pens were crazy, these guys are nuts. Every heard of any vatos using grenades in Folsom??? ]

There is a common denominator in a great deal of the madness that permeates the gang world:
LOS ANGELES.

The federal prison authorities refer to them as L.A. "scum". As an old colleague once said, "as California goes, so does the nation". Well, unfortunately, this is becoming more and more evident in the world of street gangs as well and all roads seem to lead to Los Angeles.

Bouncing lowrider cars on hydraulics, portrayed in countless African American music videos. Where did this come from: You got it, from The streets of L.A.

The baggy pants, bandanas and "pin down your potential adversary on the streets" --- For decades, a typical L.A. scene going back to the Zoot Suit era. Oh yes, nortenos do this too. Of course, they "learned" from their southern carnales while doing time. And, I might add, they learned well.

Nortenos have television sets as well !!

From local banging, the Sureno 13 movement -- L.A./EME flag bearers -- became a California thing as their influence (whether spread by wannabe imitations in Northern Cal who proceeded to "stir the pot" in that region or loyal L.A. soldiers who can barely be discerned from the EME made members) became widespread.

The L.A. flavor emerged nationally with 1)EME's influence and control of the federal prison system (an earlier post describes the EME's effort to infiltrate the federal prison system). The term "L.A. and California scum" was given to ALL California convicts because of the hell raising (killings and stabbings in their system);

2)the Sureno influence whose members "idolize" EME and seek to curry favor with their heroes while perpetuating their own agendas; This Sureno movement, having taken a life of its own, has now become an extension of the L.A./EME image where the EME, by proxy, is extending its brand of "terror" outside of California.

Then comes the international scene and once again it is from the bowels of Los Angeles where these 18th Street and MS13 misfits hone their street "talents". Who would have thought to hear the names of MS13 and 18th street emanating from places like El Salvador, Mexico and Guatemala???

L.A. gang experts today have a unique intelligence relationship with other countries (mostly in Latin America) and, as for the gang member/terrorist connection: unfortunately, there will be more developments as investigations shed additional light on other activities.

Los Angeles has been/is dubbed the "gang capital of the world" and it is a Monster problem.

If this gang plague were indeed AIDS, and I had the cure, L.A. would become the Garden of Eden quicker than you could say:
"tie me up, homes".

Tijuana Jailer

TijuanaJailer said...

(It seems to me the point is, yeah the CI's help, but there's a helluva lot of other technology assisting in the indictment of these guys.)

Although I seldom respond directly to most comments, yours deserves some recognition, Sancha.

Successful organized crime prosecutions begin AND end with CI's. Without them it is extremely difficult to a)initiate the investigation and, b)secure the conviction in court.

Of course there are snitches who lie their butts off to cut a better deal for themselves and this is part of the world we deal with. The jury has to make that final decision.

For the percentage of CI's who are "no good" there is an astronomically higher percentage of convicts who swear they are innocent but are really guily. For the most part, you show me a convicted person in prison and I'll show you an "innocent" man -- even the ones who pled guilty.

It works both ways, Sancha. Do I mean to say that two wrongs make a right? Of course not but things even out in life for hardcore offenders and maybe we need to ask a Higher Source why this happens.

RE: CI's -- Chuco Castro's undercover involvement was invaluable in taking down several EME heavies under RICO indictments. His testimony was vital in securing convictions.

Before him there was "Mundo" Mendoza, the highest ranking EME member to turn to date. He not only put away their "biggest gun" in Joe Morgan - who died in prison of cancer - but several others who will never see the light of day.
Like Chuco, it was his testimony that persuaded juries to convict.

Before Mundo there was "Sailor Boy" Gonzales (his information led to several search warrants that led to dozens of EME arrests and convictions);

Before Sailor Boy there was Carlos "Pie Face" Ortega who was the first to shed light on the fact that there was an EME in existence. Yes Samantha, they are for real!

You are correct in applauding our technology because we possess the most up to date resources but we cannot implement these tools without the proper guidance by those who have "been there and done that".

Ultimately, once they take the stand, you have a)the testimony of the CI, b)the corroborating physical evidence and c)in many cases the bad guys themselves are "performing" on video tape giving themselves up! What more damning evidence that that? And how did the authorities know that these EME members would be meeting in this hotel to discuss EME business? A CI gave them the lead.

Most folks who detract from the use of CI's are folks who have an agenda -- whether criminal or otherwise. Father Flannigan stated it so perfectly: "There's no such thing as a bad boy".

Peace ........

TijuanaJailer

Sancha said...

Thanks TJ...would you believe that as soon as I hit post, I realized the chronological error of what I'd said? lol You're right of course; the wire tap wouldn't be in place without the information on which wire to tap. That's what I get for trying to defend someone else's argument. Thanks for drawing the picture for me lol.

Anonymous said...

Didn't mean post the whole case, sorry I hope I did not mess with any storage issues on the blogg.
As for CI's you are right there would almost never be a case with ou them. But most the time you are making a deal with the devil, you know that Castro was the one who was instigating most the violence, like the guy who calls himself Palm Hall on this web blogg said in an earlier post. He (Chuco) landed in Palm Hall and tried to get guys to hit others just because the woods were kicking up dust and the sur was not there at the time.

Anonymous said...

CI's are needed as was stated earlier because the most dangerous criminal groups are rarely infiltrated without a CI's help. They serve a useful purpose. But a part of me thinks anyone who willingly engages in criminal conduct , then snitches on his crimies because he was the stupid one to get caught is a huge piece of shit! I'm not against civilians trying to do the right thing by calling the police when they see a crime, but telling on ones peers because of pressure from LE is just fucking dishonorable. LE is fucked up for letting these peieces of shit back into our UNSUSPECTING communities (eg Sammy the Bull.. er I mean Sammy the RAT!)just so they can make a name for themselves by taking down a figurehead.

Anonymous said...

How about Whitey Bulger, in Boston. He was out of control. THe feds let him kill and get away with it..

Anonymous said...

Whitey's still free. The FBI not only let him get away with shit but actually helped him get further in his criminal career. I think two agents went down over the handling of case. I think his brother has some pull with local govt.

Anonymous said...

Can LE relay CI information to get a wiretap or does the CI himelf have to go before a judge or grand jury to get the wiretap ok'd?

Anonymous said...

a CI can't ask a judge for anything. THe Cops are not suposed to be able to get a wire tap just on CI info with out Cooberation, but you know how that goes. It just takes the cops to lie and say that there are other factors and they usualy get what they want and with the patriot act the burden is less if they just tie it into some kind of national sucurity and they have been going after La eMe that way now. Using MS 13 as a reason. They are trumping up international aspect of that gang and the fact that they cow to La eMe ( reason being they have to do time and things could get rough if in the pen and are in troubel with them)

StillNoScript said...

Spikey-

Nobody mentioned therapy. I was talking about a middle class job market, someting that statistics prove lowers gang violence.

I know, some people are just evil and we've gotta get them off the streets.

But let Bevery Hills go poor, and see if they don't start forming groups, robbing each other, and establishing territories to sell drugs or anything on the black market.

Anonymous said...

WASN'T THE WHOLE SUBJECT OF THE C.I's BEING USED BY THE GANG UNITS?
AND HOW THEY MIGHT ABUSE THE C.I.s ABILLITY TO FUNCTION CORRECTLY,COPS MIGHT USE THE C.I.,EXCUSE TO GO AFTER GANGMEMBERS THAT HAVE PERSONAL BEEF WITH CERTAIN COPS,ANTI-GANG UNITS USUALLY GET PERSONAL GRUDGES WITH GANGMEMBERS BY WAY OF,PERSONAL VERBAL ATTACKS,MANHANDLING,AND HARRASSING GANGMEMBERS FOR NO REASON,DISRESPECTING THEIR VARRIOS,BY SAYING FUCK YOUR HOOD,ALL THIS ADDS UP TO BAD TENSIONS BETWEEN POLICE AND THE COMMUNITY,BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE HAVE RELATIVES AROUND THE SAME NEIGHBORHOOD,AND NOT EVERYONE IS BAD,BUT COPS ACT LIKE EVERYONE'S IN A GANG,AND WHEN COPS GET PERSONAL THEY GET PERSONAL WITH EVERYBODY!!

Anonymous said...

LOOKING OVER SOME OLD FOIA MEMOS, THERE WAS A MENTION OF THE VENCEREMOS BRIGADE IN CDC...ANYBODY KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THEM? SOUNDS MEXICAN

Anonymous said...

Venceremos Brigade is Cuban and they(cubans )have a bad rap in the pen as they are snitches. They even gave up Tommy Silverstien in Atlanta USP.

Anonymous said...

WHAT HAPPENED IN CALIPATRIA?

Don Quixote said...

I understand the use of snitches by LE and how it supposedly makes life and careers a little easier,it's a tactic as old as Judas snitching on Jesus to the ROmans for some silver and a break. But sometimes dealing with the devil has consequences that impact innocent people and mislead or misdirect resources that are needed for the real culprits, or resources that have more positive impact on our communities. guys like Sammy "the bull" and "Chuco Castro" are perfect examples of a seemingly good snitch that used the system to further thier own existence at the expense of everyone. Let me tell you and the readers a little about "Chuco Castro" who I was "busted" with a number of times starting in Eastlake Juvie as kids. Chuco was a "Scary" vato even as a 15 year old, he was built like a young George Foreman, big and very muscular and had absolutely no fear in him, he was loud and a mixer, and a complete sociopath,very prone to irrational and violent behavior,laughing while he beat and stomped somebody almost to death. When I first ran into him he was from "Lil Valley,Midget Rats", ELA then later he was with "El Hoyo Mara" (deadly enemies of his previous varrio). I knew a lot of the vatos from El Hoyo and when we were about 18 to 20 yrs old they told me that although "Chuco" was a legendary fighter and soldier for HM he was still a mixer,"entremetido", creating unnecessary situations. Those guys told me that for fun "Chuco" would hang out at Belvedere Park ELA and would hide in the bushes and when a single woman would walk by he would blindside her with a punch,knocking her out cold then raping her. He finally fucked up when he saw an opportunity to attack some vato's from another varrio at a party, I think it was VNE and found some of the HM veteranos and thier girlfriends at a Pastrami stand and told them to go with him on a raid. They told him they were with the girls and that it wasn't an emergency situation. Chuco then called them chickenshits, and other disrespectful names and his fate was sealed. They got him later and I understand they stabbed him about 25 times, the vatos told me that even though he lived he was in the General Hospital shitting in a bag and no longer from HM. I don't know how Chuco became a made carnal probably because of his violent fearless makeup, but he was no "Robot Salas" who was very intelligent and a Machiavellian personality, but Chucho I'm sure was made because of his self centered personallity,violence, politicing,his lack of loyalty even as a young vato. WHen he rolled over i"m sure it was for expediency and revenge and even though some bad people were put away due to his "dedo" I hope that if he's living in someplace like Seattle or Albuquerque,etc. that he's under strict supervision and that he didn't just give up somebody expendible to protect some real bad guys, and that some good results will occur even though striking a deal with the real evil forces in this mess.

Anonymous said...

What are you talking about Chuco was from VNE. He had it tattoed on his chest in real small letters.

Don Quixote said...

Yea, thats part of the point I am making, I knew this guy when we were kids and he was from "Lil Valley MR" then he flipped and was from Hoyo Mara, then because of his bullshit they threw his ass out by stabbing him 25 times and he ends up with VNE, all his varrios he claimed at one time or the other were deadly enemies of each other, now he's gone from EME to PC and a "dedo" but one thing consistant with his behavior was and is, he looks out for himself and has no loyalty to anyone. Also he continues to use his violent, sociopathic side to further his own gains. Is anyone listening?

Anonymous said...

DQ .......

What you are saying is that Chuco's turning is "distasteful". All CI's are "distasteful" to LE, Don Q, some more than others. That doesn't make their corroborated testimony less acceptable. Sammy the Bull is a great example and now you cite another one. Does that mean that we should not pursue the bad guys because another bad guy is so "distasteful"?

Yes, it is a "pact with the devil" but if Chuco gives us info that an EME meeting is to take place at the Holiday Inn and we have an opportunity to video tape these meetings and "hang" the bad guys, you're saying we should not accept Chuco's tip because of his bad reputation? I don't think that is what you are saying.

Do you think that we in LE look forward to "going to lunch" and "mixing" with these CI's? It's a job, it's often distasteful, and that's why you have an LE community. We do the work that most folks don't want to do. We often utilize bad people (from Russian mob to LCN to EME) to get the bigger boys.

The results speak for themselves, especially when it comes to organized crime. It's also known as Life in the Big City.

The bad guys make up their own rules (and they love those gray areas) and we make up our rules (and, yes we take advantage of those gray areas). That's life.

KMA


That has been going on since

Anonymous said...

I am sorry I must missread you post, I knew he had been stabbed, you could see the old markings. We would do our routine on the yard in Palm Hall and he was leading the groups. Witch was strange because usualy the shot caller would not do this so it would look less like he was the shot caller.He was an ego maniac...
Like I said in a earlier post he actualy ask that we start stabbing people becasue the woods were getting off more then the SUr.

Don Quoxote said...

No KMA I'm not saying "chuco's turning is dispicable,it doesn't surprise me at all as I tried to make clear in my post,Chuco is dispicable and always has been. And I'm not saying using guys like Chuco for info is a bad thing, what I am saying is that it's unfortunate that LE has to use guys like Chuco at all if he eventually benefits and innocent people suffer due to this pact, and you LE people know the truth is he does benefit as well as you do, so it is an unholy pact that can and does saturate LE people with a stench that can't be washed off easily. And the brilliant "Tijuana Jailer" who is usually "right on" missed the mark a little when in response to a question about international gang culture growth responded that the common denominator was "Los Angeles" should have said "Los Angeles/drugs! Drugs are the common denominator in all our relationships on this blog. gangs, cops,crime,$$$,control, and economics. Are you telling me that the EME is responsible for Billions of dollars in drugs in LA alone. Are you going to tell me that some wacked out Mojados are sophisticated enough to move, distribute, and launder billions of $$$. Let me help you a little, forget a bunch of EME thugs they only provide the enforcement, and distribution of drugs and money. Go back 50 or 60 years in LA, where were the varrios where no pedo or shit was allowed and if a vato was a conocido he could score weed,smack, or whatever? These were the guys with the connections. Years ago it was Lopez Mara, Rose HIlls, Wilmas, Canta Ranas etc.Where are these people now? THis isn't a secret but those old timers were hooked up and protected and they and there family's have lived the "American Dream". So if you LE are so "gung Ho" about snitches, and drug enforcement maybe you should stop,look around, think about a complete overview of the whole drug war, talk to some old cynical cops who understand the "system" and who benifits from it. And some poor stupid kid getting busted for drugs or being a gangster and who doesn't realize he has become "Chow" for the system that supports so many and benefits so few might not go softly into that goodnight.

StillNoScript said...

Don Quoxote,

Great comment. LE's refusal to even discuss how drugs get here let alone the socio-economic enviroments that breed drugs and gangs is just as frightening as any gang member I've ever seen.

I believe there is EVIL in this world, and of course we need police in a society to protect the innocent.

But I also believe in GOOD, and part of what GOOD means, in my opinion, is a society doing everything it can to PREVENT THE ENVIRONMENT that gangs and drugs flourish in. And in this country, statistics have proven that the environment that produces gangs and drugs is the environment where people have very little access to a quality education and well paying jobs.

They say that you CAN NOT conquer evil without GOOD in your heart.

In our government today, at all levels, I just don't see a lot of GOOD when it comes to enforcing drugs and gangs. All I see is a fixated OBSESSION with EVIL.

Anonymous said...

Yea cops do not lie nor do DA's...................... read this


http://www.marijuana.org/Lawdotcom9-18-2000.htm

Anonymous said...

Clutch respondo in time right up. As it went:

Sometimes I went to good and plenty ideas and often work there. What problem? That's the big suits with the brass who went upstairs who fucked. Why not and then some LE (sure they went) Read on. Blogg it up. They know. Don't trip. What I mean is, it seems somehow that some people have went branch, if not, then LE; especially now, when the prisons are crowded and probation is a must and parole aint fun, but funner than before. That's the therapy to solve it. (not some wizard). Begin like this, train those cats to be "staff", not some encouragers. Tune in and listen to the interview, and if they're active then watch it. For those who don’t, then get some motivation. Conceptual discouragement is supposed to always make first choice. More people say “client”, but some say "customer" when they point at where they're at, and then nobody is so understood. This can change you, or your life. Make it happy.

Think about crime as well as psychological. Diagnose, treat, cure. Speak back respond in dual.

Spikey Forthright

Anonymous said...

Very interesting! sounds like LE did no history or background on Chuco Castro ,just cut a deal before thinking about what they had on there hands,"high fives all around" but who got betrayed in the long run, and who got protected or passed over. Chuco's whole life was one of betrayal, and deceit, but maybe the deal cut was good for certain career advancements, and after all who cares about all the assholes out there.

Anonymous said...

Chuco really got over as he moved to the Northeast and lives a regular life from what I understand. he still writes family in VNE. You wonder sometimes why LE goes to bed with guys like that, but I am sure he was in the interigation room and made that move knowing that he was most likely in the hat for not staying out and dealing things.

StillNoScript said...

Chuco Castro: A West Coast Henry Hill?

"The other day I ordered Carnitas and instead I got stale tortillas with ground beef. I'm a nobody. I get to live the rest of my life like a regular shmuck..."

I see a movie coming. Who's going to step up and make it while probably getting themselves killed in the process? Any takers? Come on Olmos, it's been over a decade since you've been the subject of a story on "60 Minutes".

BTW, where the F is Wally? I still think he was in the San Quintin riots.

Don Quixote said...

Hey "still no script" believe me "Chuco Castro" would have had Henry Hill down on his knees in no time,I hear Henry Hill on the radio at times and he spits in the face of LCN I have heard him say "Fuck them if they want me I'm in Pasadena, CA, have a black girlfriend and we're both in rehab! And its funny how on a national level the media always considers us Chicanos, Mexicanos, "subhumans" incapable of contstructing
complicated "Machiavellian" scenarios" I guess you have to hand it to "Chuco Castro" who's probably living the good life on Martha's Vineyard or someother firme lugar. As the old saying goes "keep underestimating us and pretty soon we'll have pasted you up"

Anonymous said...

If the EME knew where chuco was, do you think they'd send someone across the country to hit him? Why doesn't the government kill the CI's after they're done snitching? Everyone thinks they're in the witness protection plan anyways, who'd know?

Anonymous said...

They would if they knew exactly where he was. I am sure the word is out that he is in New England, but what town and what house. How far do you think a car load od tattoed low riders would get driving around Maine looking for a guy named Chuco? Hey, err.. huh.. have you seen Chuco?

StillNoScript said...

Don Quixote,

I saw Henry Hill on Tavis Smiley (PBS) a year ago, and he couldn't even talk. He had to have been high.

I've seen him on Howard Stern too.

I think most people on the west coast are aware of Mexican gangs and prison gangs, and their power. I would guess the reason why there's more notoriety with LCN is because of the Italian mob's grip on legitimate industry up until about the '80s. Think Gambino Family and Donald Trump. My god. Talk about making someone their bitch.

I guess EME has to extort someone on The Donald's level, and for an entire decade like Gotti and Gravano did, before the media sees them in the same light as the east coast organized crime groups.

And, no doubt a race complex plays a part in it too. Italians, Irish, Russian, all White. The media and hollywood figure that romanticizing those mafias up and making them look more glamorous than what they are sells better because of the fact they're white.

You look at the real pictures of Henry Hill, Paul Varrio, etc, and those guys are wearing regular clothes and look like a bunch of mechanics at lunch break. Certainly not as glitzy as they look in GoodFellas. But in reality, they were no joke. And neither are the prison gangs on the west coast.

RetiredJoker said...

You can't compare LCN to La Eme in terms of gross profit and LCN has done more of their share of killing too. The blog is a definite west coast slant to it, so little do we know about the La Cosa Nostra. La Eme may run prisons in Califas but do you think they have any pull in Rykers Island or even Southwest states? I know they don't in Texas and New Mexico.
So when you think about it in the grand scale of things and actual dollars and cents. LA eme is big fish in their small pond. Whereas LCN is up and down the east coast and midwest with ties to big business, casinos, drugs, counterfeiting,extortiong,etc.
When La Eme starts running Unions and buying off politicians and city contracts for building constrution then you can say them both in the same breath. Extorting The Trump and Extorting Olmos....hmmmmmm, who's got bigger fucking balls?
The Italian Mafia has long been glorified by the media and hollywood to the point where they had to be more on the down low in order to do business. Case in point, the rise and fall of John Gotti. Wiseguys try not to look the part whereas an Eme carnal is but announcing who he is with badge of honor and big middle finger to LE.
I guess you can say thats why La Eme will always be a prison gang and not a major organized crime force on the outs because you can't sneak up on someone or have a business front some illegal activities when you have La Eme stamped on your forehead.
Do you think the italian mob gets LCN tatooed on their neck?

Anonymous said...

I am not sure that they will never be in the same place as LCN. When you run prison you have that pull knowing that if another group tries to screw you, you can get em when they get busted. The AB tried to branch out in the early 80's even blackmaling LCN to give protection for a slice of the pie on the streets. I suspect one of the reasons LE came down so hard on them is because of their fear that the AB would be able to grow into a real international crime syndacate. It looked like it would happen for a while there. Some Brand Members think that LCN gave information to LE to ensure that the Brand did not move in on thier turf.

Anonymous said...

LCN grew really strong when italians were still poor. Because they were poor, gangsters had a large pool of guys who would do anything to escape the poverty around them including kill. Now that they've assimiliated into USA they don't have the recruits they used to. Now the raza on the other hand...Well it was once said on the board.."as california goes, so does the nation" and mexicans are taking over here in Califas."
Its just a matter of time before the Mexican Mafia grows larger than LCN, especially after vatos who grew up gangbanging start hitting the colleges for an education.

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SNS said...

Hate to bring this movie up again,
But in American Me you can see where Santana and J.D. try to extort the mafia, and how the mafia retaliates. (Any knowledgable coppers or ex bangers care to shed some light on the real event(s) the 'uncut heroin' scene in A.M. was based on?? Since Wally is obviously tied up in a basement somewhere and not posting?)

Anonymous said...

Hate to bring this movie up again,
But in American Me you can see where Santana and J.D. try to extort the mafia, and how the mafia retaliates.

The thing to remember is that The Eme controls the drugs in Los now regardless of how the Italians retaliated.

Anonymous said...

Tom Green on the Disney Channel?
Did I just see Tom Green on the Disney Channel ? Wow. I think I did. Even though my brain's throbbing furiously due to the completely bizarre thought, it's true.
Discover guitar lessons - The ultimate guitar blog

DON QUIXOTE said...

Hey I don't want to sound like a know it all but I have to comment on some of your comments as regards to the EME and LCN. First of all I respect everyone on this blog as thinking people willing to share and listen to ideas but "Still no Script" I'm surprised at your thinking that EME and organized crime is strictly a "prison thing". And "Retired Joker" you seem to only react to the EME and Sur posts in kind of a "Provincial" way of thinking. If we continue to think of the EME and associates as just a regional, prison gang we are doomed to repeat what history has taught us. LCN is essentially dead meat,only really having any illicit money or control in the "Porno" industry and slipping there too. Read "Vengence is mine" Jimmy Fratianno, "The last Mafioso" who referred to the LCN as the "Disneyland Mafia", he ended up using EME carnals for hits (Champ Reynoso etc) because he said they had balls and were ambitious, also read "Johnny Roselli" who went back to Al Capone, Frank Nitti, and Sam Giancanna, he referred to the LCN as now the "Retard Mafia",and it makes sense after the John GOtti,Sammy the Bull, Joey Gallo comedy show. It makes perfect sense because the old "Mustache Pete's" are all dead and there offspring have been educated and with plenty of dinero have moved on to other legitmate endeavors. I happen to have grown up in Lincoln Heights section of LA and when I was a kid about half the place were Dago's and many were related to the old LCN hooked up familys (Dragna, Matranga's, Bruno's,Mandalas,) and all those kids became accountants, lawyers, doctor's, and they owned most of the property in the northeast LA area it seemed. I still see many of them and do bisiness with them and I can assure you they don't want anything to do with LCN bulllshit. On the other hand La Eme and thier Jefe's are a powerfull and growing presence accross the country and internationally. Retired Joker who said EME is strictly a So Cal phenomenon and mentioned New Mexico, and Texas as places where they had no influence is very mistaken. I happen to travel a lot and in fact live most of the time in New Mexico and if you want to check out the EME influence here go to the internet and click up ALbuquerque Journal, Sureno 13. This took place a few years back when the EME set up shop in the old varrios of Burque, South Valley, and immediately started to terrorize and murder the local drug dealers (I think they got like 15 to 20 local vato's devoladas) eventually a bunch got busted (13)and then immediately began a reign of terror in the prison system here even starting several riots and killing a couple of prison guards. They were so murderous and coniving that they eventually separated them and sent them to joints all over the US. In the meantime little surenos from 18th st., Florence 13,etc have been seizing control of many varrios in BURQue and other little towns, Rosewell, Bernalillo, etc.

Anonymous said...

Read "Vengence is mine" Jimmy Fratianno, "The last Mafioso" who referred to the LCN as the "Disneyland Mafia", he ended up using

Isn't Jimmy a rat now? I posted that the LCN is dying out and the eme will be as strong one day but have to say Jimmy is talking shit cause he ratted if its the same Jimmy F. i seen on a special.

Hey Palm Hall, what does the AB think of guys like Jimmy Coonan or other westies from the 70's-80's? Do they become AB members in the feds?

DON QUIXOTE said...

To continue on (I apologize for being longwinded)because I think this is an important subject. I am also in places like EL Paso, Denver,Chicago,even Kansas City,and the surenos are there and a growing influence so we should not hide our heads in the sand. And also addressing the "only a prison gang" thinking, not involved in unions or business's, maybe LE would like to comment on the Belmont High School fiasco costing over a billion dollars and counting and the relationship with "TELACU" and the powerful building trades council or all the federally funded housing projects and bid rigging and favoritism involved. They already know about this scandal but who's investigating?, hope someone doesn't get spanked by getting too close. And who's controlling the $$$ Billions, and why is there a dealer selling crack, and meth on almost every busy corner of LA right out in the open? ANd the endless caravans of trucks moving illegal drugs out of LA and accross the country,and then bringing millions back in the trucks? Must be just some prison gang!

Anonymous said...

Don Q,
you forgot Pancho villa from CLC'S. Didn't his get arrested with over 500,000 in cash laying around? The thing is alot of the hard hitting vatos are tecatos and don't have much business savvy so even though they are M , the most they have to their names is a creased down shirt, some carga, and about 200 bucks to their name. In donnie Bracso, the guy lefty was poor even though he had over 20 hits under his belt. I think most mafia guys fit that description wheteher they are LCN or M.

Anonymous said...

I do not think Jimmy Coonnan would be a viable option for memebrship in the Brand. He would if he had control of the West Side of NYC still. The Brand seems to go with people that can give them something or have done a murder on their own to help the AB. They have recruted Irish Republicains in the past. Ones that had skills in Bomb making.
Maybe someday the Brand and La eMe will do what they did in Chicago along time ago and make it a Syndicate rather then a organized crime group based on ethninicaty. Until that time they will remain somewhat regional. You have to remember that La eMe has enemies in other southwestern states that are pretty strong in their own states. Like Arizona's Mexican Mafia or TS in Texas even though they have groups there that are splintering. I think because of the Brands ability to get other white gangs to be submisive and take orders. Like the Dirty White Boys the NLR and others, they could,if they survive the big trial that will most likely put the majority of their leadership on death row. ( strange thing, almost 40 people facing the death penalty and no real media coverage.) La eMe is also embroiled in there own leadership vacuum. I know that they are trying to regionalize there leaders. Giving one area to one brother then another to another. When this has hapened in the past those carnal's that get that area become a gang unto themselfs. Hero Shy was outta control in SGV for a long time. Or say Sana, he really was only answering to the other brothers when he made someone new. He made Oso from fith street then he gets AIDS, that was a bummer. How can one tell what group will really grow, it has allot to do with the ones that can fly under the radar the longest. Sana was good at that. I mean every Orange COunty cop knew that he was that guy, yet he got away with things for ever. I know he got phone calls from the county jail daily, you know they werent comming to his house. Most La eMe shot callers have been busted that way, call and letters going to THEIR house!! If they can't learn to circumnavigate that, well who knows just how big they will get.
Palm Hall

Anonymous said...

PH,
U know anything about Hells Angels, How are they with the Brand? A Vietnam Vet told me yesterdayu that the HA'S offered to fight for the viet cong during the war. Ever hear anything like that?

Anonymous said...

Hells Angels and the Brand are not on the best of terms, do not listen to the LE websites that say they are. Here is the story; in SQ there was a war going on with AB and BGF, there was going to be a riot. Everyone knew it. I belive it was John Stintson that shot Sunny B. a Kite telling to have all the HA's ready and on the ayrd the next day. Sonny shot him a kite back " We are Red and White, Not white" from then on the HA's had to go to Vacaville. This has only just changed but they basicaly locked it up in SQ. A few of them walked right into the Lt.'s office and asked that they be transfered. A PC move by all acounts. I know that the Brand has taxed them in central California, one time there was a Bar/HA club house that got shot to all hell, story goes that was a Brand hit for saying No.
Palm Hall

Anonymous said...

thnx PH

Anonymous said...

heard from an old friend and former member that in the northwest an outlaw biker group thats hooked up tight with the Hell's Angels called "Brother Speed" got raided by the Feds a while back and came under RICO prosecution. Supposedly of the 200 or so members over 75 of them have Rolled over. So much for franchising outlaw biker clubs! Meanwhile in the southwest the "Bandido's and their crime partners "Mongols" are kicking ass and taking names

Anonymous said...

Not much differance with those groups in the pen, truth be told Bikers are victums in the joint allot the time. They have pull on the streets in northern ca, in places like CoCo county. But other then that, hell real cons dont have much time for em. They just aren't gangsters. They are more worried about their ole lady and their scooter, and haviing their in the wind again some day.Not that there is anything wrong with that.....

Anonymous said...

WHATS THE MONGOL SITUATION,THEY RECRUIT DROP OUTS,AND HANG AROUND WITH GREEN LIGHTERS.

StillNoScript said...

Don Quixote,

Thanks for the lesson.

Good read, as always.

Anonymous said...

where the hell is Wally???

Anonymous said...

I think they wacked Him, something about keeping there names out of this Blogg. They dumped him the LA River, but it was dry so he just schriveled up, if weren't for the big Black Hand tattoed on his neck they would of never been able to identify him...

Don Quixote said...

I think Wally's got an claim in and can't be seen working,in fact he's in the joke I'm going to tell playing the part of the Mayate.
On the eastside of LA a mexicano goes into a local bar for a drink, he sits down at the bar and orders,then looking at the end of the bar he see's this vision and exclaims loudly, "Ai Dios" bartender who is that beautiful man at the end of the bar? The bartender replies"Don't you know! that's our Lord Jesus Crist. The mexican says well buy him a drink on me! Jesus replies, "thank you my son. Then a gavacho walks in and as the mexicano did looks over at Jesus and loudly say's "Oh me Gawd!" who's that beautiful man over there bartender? The bartender replies "Can't you tell thats our Lord Jesus Christ" The gavacho says loudly "Get him a beer on me". Jesus replies thank you my son. Then a Mayate walks in and as the others looks over in the corner and shouts "Have Mercy" bartender buy my precious Jesus a beer on me! Jesus again thanks the man. Jesus finishes his beers and as he gets up to leave he faces the Mexicano and asks "Mijo for your kindness is there anything I can do for you in return? The mexican replies "Jesus my arm is almost useless from and old stab wound" and Jesus put's his hand on the man's arm who immediately shouts "I can move my arm like a kid, Milagro! Then Jesus speaks to the gavacho, "My son for being so kind to me is there something I can do for you in return" The man replies "Jesus my knee is ruined from an old soccer injury, I can hardly walk",Jesus touches the man's knee who yells out "Aw m gawwd I can dance like a teenager",. Jesus then faces the Mayate and says "My child for your beautiful and unselfish act of charity can I do something for you" The Mayate almost jumps out of his shoes and screams "Don't touch me I'm on Disability!
Hey Wally just dial 2222222222222 for "El Lobo insurance claims"

Anonymous said...

15 days no posts?

Anonymous said...

Fucking Tatts ever so popular. I happened to have gone to a so called Tatto Expo. Shit, most every so called artist had chicano/homie or what ever the "F" you guys want to called it in their portfolios. Tatts reminds me of motorcycle clubs. It initially was looked as someone who was a badass and now even gays have them and drive them (motorcycles that is) nothing against them. I will leave it open for comments.

StillNoScript said...

Comedian Bill Maher, on typical yuppy girls and their tatoos:

"Just because your tattoo has Chinese characters in it, it doesn't make you spiratual. It's right above the crack of your ass and it translates to "Beef with Broccoli". The last time you did anything spiritual, you were praying to God you weren't pregnant."

Anonymous said...

this is off topic but what happened with the Timothy McGee case? I havent heard anything about that in a while

Anonymous said...

If you look him up (Tim Mcghee) on the LASD website, he is only facing an attemted murder charge. The murder charges were dropped it seems.
On the black and brown violence, I'd like to comment that I met some vatos from 18 street up who moved up north back in 86-87 before the sur norte beef went mainstream. Those vatos told me their main allies were the Hoover crips. I would also recall vatos complaining in teen angels about being jumped by blacks, and cholos from 18 letting it happen because it was their homies. are they still firme with each other?

RetiredJoker said...

Don,
I respectully disagree with you and a few points.
Most of these so called Sureno's you talk about are wannabe's. El Paso street gangs also claim allegiance to Texas prison gangs and don't tell me Eme has a strong presence in there. The Texas Syndicate runs things. On the east coast NETA, Latin Kings, Vice Lords, Crips, Bloods and Disciples run most things in prison and the streets.
Theres a big difference between these lil wannabe's and a made Eme soldier. My homeboy moved to one of the worst part of El Paso and they bang hard there, but they have Texas pride and would not claim sureno. For a while most of the southwesten states were claiming red and blue but it was crip and blood and it was norte and sur, it was from north and south of that state.
Sure, I'm pretty sure some kid's that live in L.A. whose parents relocated to othe areas try and emulate what they saw in L.A. by starting their little clicks but the presence of latino gangs is now very strong in Texas,Arizona and New Mexico. And just like anywhere else, they have their regional pride amd don't want to claim L.A. Street gangs.
Surenos in Chicago? I been there bro, Latin Kings, Disciples and Vice Lords run the show there. Chicanos, white and blacks are claim either Disciples and Vice Lords with a majority of Latinos claim Latin Kings. There are some Sureno and Norteno gangs the but just wannabe street gangs.
I will reiterate La Eme is a west coast thing right now. Will they expand in the future? Quite possibly, but it will be hard for them to go into state prisons and lay it down hard. I'm not saying there are come Carnals locked up in other states, there are probably quite a few but there recruitment will not be as easy since there are establised prison gangs there already. I would think AB had a better chance of doing it since they splinter groups to deal with like the Dirty White Boys in Texas who are a "white" spin off of the Texas Syndicate and similiar relationships throughout the US.
La eme were able to do it in california over 30 years ago because for the most part they had no resistence. But now, other state prisons has grown stronger with their regional brand of ethnic inmates. How many Mexicans do you know In New York and Florida? Now How many Puerto Ricans and Cubans do you think there are? And don't know if you know this, on the east coast Puerto Ricans don't like Mexicans.
It would take a tremendous amount of manpower and these lil wannabes on the streets are not going to do it. I'm pretty sure as the media and hollywood tell more gangster tales, we will be seeing more and more of "california" style gangsters spread accross the U.S. but 95% of them will be poserss.
Point in case, anybody ever seen the documentary on HBO about gangbanging in Arkansas? Where there were a bunch of white kids all claiming crips and bloods on the farms?

Anonymous said...

Mexicans are cropping up in record numbers all over the US, even the East Coast. Since most of them will start out as wannabes and their affinity is to Los Angeles Chicano Culture, the EME will ultimately prevail. There used to be almost no mexicans in New york, but there are alot of them now. And they will outnumber and f@#$% up the puerto ricans eventually. I think Texas will be the biggest threat to EME supremacy becasue they have a long history people want to be a part of also.

with all the sureno hype right now, I'm surprised no one has taken the picture from the EME timeline and put it on t-shirts under a caption that reads " original gangsters" whoever did would make a killing! everyone would but the shirt. Of course then risk of getting treated like olmos.

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Anonymous said...

Re Joker kind of just restated what I was saying, the eMe has too many obsticals to full national power. THerre are too many entrenched latin gangs and like he said , in other states the ones that claim SUr are wannabe'. The Latin Kings are some serious Rats. In Ilinois prisons they have all this power , yet they still have documented cases of telling on AB and Black gangs after wars. Not like they have wars in prisons back east like in CA, they mostly get off against the Man there. The guy was right about Texas, No way teh California eMe gets big there. They have there own thing. Also AZ and NM. There best bet is to colonized the Northwest. The try and spread that way. The AB is the most feared gang in the Feds, BY FAR!! They are the ones that never back down tothe numorus blacks that hail from DC , you understand that if you get busted for anything in DC it is a federal offence because there is no State, it is a federal district.That is the real reason behind the eMe never wanting to upset the brand.

Anonymous said...

I read where the brand in the FEDS was trying to distance itself from the EME

Anonymous said...

where did you read that? I doubt it, too long and strong a relationsjip.

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Anonymous said...

here's a link for the person asking about Timothy Mcghee:

http://www.atwatervillage.org/forum/threads.php?id=263_0_10_0_C

TijuanaJailer said...

To: Don Quixote ----- Sorry for not addressing (re-addressing) the L.A. street gang topic. I was "out of range" for a bit. I agree with you on the drug subject and multitudes of lives are destroyed by this scourge!

My comments were in reference to the huge influence the L.A. street gang scene and the EME has spread throughout the state, to a lesser degree to other parts of the country and outside the USA.

(Are you telling me that the EME is responsible for Billions of dollars in drugs in LA alone.)

The scope of EME's influence is huge, DQ, but they have yet to enjoy the "financial successes" of most major crime groups, that's for sure. They seem content to enjoy the "creature comforts" (quote from Mundo Mendoza's writings) that makes life in the barrio (or in prison) more enjoyable.

From as far back as I can remember, the EME has always been described as a "baby learning to walk" in so far as their organizational criminal development is concerned. Even to this day, I might add!! Their tremendous potential has increased almost like a snowball rolling downhill but no one has been able to harness this empire of theirs to the criminal machine that LE has feared for many years. Why? Many reasons. Here are some: 1)many of them are drug users (getting high on their own supply); 2)successful RICO and local prosecutions have kept them in disarray ("down but certainly never out for the count") and 3)their organizational structure (or lack of) is also a BIG reason.

When the EME was initially formed in the 1950's, it's members enjoyed a purely democratic "one-man, one-vote" system in which no carnal could give orders to another. Think about this: ALL these recruits were the leaders of their respective street gangs so their egos were as big as a football field. None of these arrogant s.o.b.'s were about to take orders from another. As in any society, certain members (such as Luis "Huero" Flores, "Cheyenne" Cadena, Mike Ison, and later others like Joe Morgan and "Topo Peters") emerged as "shot callers" and these leadership roles were unofficially bestowed upon them by the other members in the same manner that any family looks up to one or two family members to sort of lead activities at family functions.

When the inclusion of "reglas" (rules) and the death oath took effect in the early 1960's, no one dared talk about a formal organizational structure with much seriousness because the carnales would simply laugh at such a notion. In the early 1970's - in San Quentin and Folsom - a brief experiment took place in which some carnales were given the designation of "capos". It quickly fell on it's face as no one ever took this type of formal leadership seriously.

What did emerge was an informal leadership with Joe Morgan enjoying the titular title of Godfather. In the early-1970's, LE and the media apparently agreed to dub Mr. Morgan with this title. After all, it sounded good. Much of this information was a result of "misinformation" given by some EME dropouts. In fact, one dropout - Ronnie Salazar - was pressured by "Champ" Reynoso into pleading guilty to the 1972 killing of Jesse Gonzales in East Los Angeles. Champ warned Ronnie that Joe was vital to the EME's interests on the streets and, since the Gonzales killing was a personal beef arising from the victim residing with Ronnie's lady, he should "ride the murder charge". Ronnie pled guilty to the slaying and later dropped out along with several other VNE EME members - Refugio "Rufas" Pena, Arthur "Artie" Duran and Desiderio "Desi" Gonzales. This also followed the slaying of Thomas "Elmo" Duran at Folsom Prison, another VNE representative who received his "walking papers".

Joe was often teased by his carnales about this Godfather label but they ALL knew better.

I don't think anyone on this blog would begin to compare the EME's financial status with any of the big Mexican cartels, LCN, or just about any major organized crime group. It just isn't so. But their sphere of influence is scary and their lack of a "central committee" or chain of command probably has hampered their criminal growth.

Great Comment, No Script ( LE's refusal to even discuss how drugs get here let alone the socio-economic enviroments that breed drugs and gangs is just as frightening as any gang member I've ever seen.)

I don't know if it's "refusal" as much as it is frustration at their impotence. The introduction and proliferation of drugs is much like the illegal alien problem: like trying to stamp out a million roaches with a half a can of Black Flag. And it gets worse in ALL communities from the poor to the elite.

The mistake that people make with regard to the EME's power is to downplay their "potential" (there's that description once again: "a baby learning to walk"). Criminal cartels serve the same master and oftentimes they cross paths. LCN has a history of interacting with the EME and AB which goes back to the 1970's. In the big picture, LCN surely does not need to be tied to violent prison gangs but, as they cross paths in prison settings, their interaction becomes inevitable and more frequent.

The "American Me" scene of Italians doing in a house full of surenos or EME was purely fictional as was the rape scene of EME raping the Italian Mobster's son in prison. Remember, this was a FICTION movie.

As for Jimmy "The Weasel" using Adolph "Champ" Reynoso for an LCN hit, Jimmy was already "no good" at the time of his proposition to Champ and Champ sensed there was something wrong. His intention was to take out Jimmy AFTER collecting the down payment but Weasel got paranoid and disappeared from the scene (I believe the marshal's whisked him away).

DON Q .......... You took the words out of my mouth when you mentioned New Mexico. I'm not as familiar with the suburbs and surrounding cities you mention but Albuquerque is a hotbed of EME and sureno activity. Many of the "blue headband" homies are from families of Los Angeles transplants who moved away from L.A. to escape the madness only to have their kids import the b.s. It is a scene that is more dangerous than the Crips and Bloods movement to cities like Kansas City because the Chicano gang culture is deeply rooted in "family" and these guys are prepared to "die for their barrio" -- or, their extended family.

Omaha, Nebraska, is experiencing a similar problem with Compton Chicanos tied directly to EME and selling dope for EME. There has already been a direct confrontation with surenos there killing an Omaha police officer. Confiscated from a search warrant was a group photo - taken in Nebraska - of hard core surenos (not the wannabe types we've discussed earlier) that have been identified as L.A. gang members with direct ties to members of EME and involved in meth activity on the EME's behalf.

The Texas prison system has a similar prison gang which is described as an EME ally but is an entirely different group than the Cali EME. The Texas EME is the group that controls and influences many of the Chicano communities throughout Texas and NOT to be confused with the California EME. Any Cali EME activity in Texas would best be described as minimal and inconsequential.

Last Comment: I seriously doubt that the EME has intentions of "controlling" Chicago, New York and east coast cities, let alone Texas and states out this way. Haven't you seen the price of gas these days??? (smile) Seriously, the only reason their influence is even felt outside of Cali is because many have relocated to areas and states where they are not known by the authorities. Also, being in a federal prison allows them to make regional contacts and they then look to take a small piece of the criminal pie in those areas. It's more a matter of EME "activity" rather than EME "control". They are surely more active in some cities/states than in others. To say that they are active in Denver, Colorado, for example, is not to say or imply that they are looking to control Denver's drug market.

TijuanaJailer said...

Peace .......

Tijuana Jailer

RetiredJoker said...

I've been reading alot about the nation wide crackdown on MS members and its astonishing how many are out there. In states like North Carolina, Florida and New York. If MS ever gets itself "organized" they could get scary but I think once the Federal government started shedding light on them on the national level that now it will be harder for them since they will be under the microscope.
Anyone know how the ties to MS in Central America and to their american counterparts? Same with 18th street. Are they close to their L.A. Counterparts are totally seperate?

Don Quixote said...

Good to hear from you Tijuas, Man your really a breath of fresh air. And what is really scary about this whole situation is the rapidity of the EME/sureno growth accross the nation and the merger and powerfull alliances or "cards" given to allies such as the "Paisa's", "Border Brothers", AB,Old Arizona EmE,Mexicanemi" in Texas(mainly vatos from El Paso,San Antonio,Houston) who I hear in the "Chicano Daily News" are sqashing the old Texas Syndicate in the joints at least. You can click up almost any Newpaper IN site in the country and find Sur13 news of battling with establihed gangs. I clicked up chicago news and there was gunbattle between Sureno's and Latin Kings over control. Can you ever imagine reading in the LA Times about a Chicago gang in a gunbattle with Sureno's on the LA streets? So again I say we better deal with these problems now or very soon it could be a situation that is scary to think about. ANd "Still No Script" is right on the money saying that "Ecomonics" like good jobs,free child care, great places for kids like the old "Boys Clubs" (and girls too), nice clean safe playgrounds,good schools,etc;etc; is the only real solution to this horrible situation we are in.
Adelante!

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Anonymous said...

DON Q,
YOU SOUND LIKE A SURENO CHEERLEADER EVEN AS YOU CONDEMN GANG VIOLENCE.

Anonymous said...

Where the hell is Wally?!

Anonymous said...

Wally is slipping. Two major prison fights and no info? We have AB vs. Norteno fight and a huge MS vs. 18th St in Central american prisons and he gives us some lame info about CI's??? Come on man, this blog quickly becoming "the inmates running the asylum."
I love how some of the bloggers on here love to turn any subject into theirs so they can drops names and dates. TJ Jailer being the biggest culprit. Just becasue you know when Jose "the tortilla killer" Gomez got his hair cut by Leon "the hair arson" lopez doesn't give you the right to hijack every post so you can be long winded with dates and names.

Anonymous said...

Speak for yourself, many of us like Tijuas's posts. It would be nice if Wally could update us on the riots in SQ, Central America, and Calipatria.

Don Quixote said...

Far from it,even though I have somewhat of a gangster background years ago I can still remember my old neighborhoods from my youth and how respectful people were even in a tough varrio. Now it is all about fear,violence drugs, an lack of respect for others. I am only commenting about what I see as a social descent into madness and chaos and I just wish to point out the danger and how if we as a society join together instead of segregating ourselves into racial,ethnic, and especially "economic" subgroups we can develop a better situation for our children and grandchildren. Don't mean to sound like a "Jeremiah" yelling "the sky is falling!" but I really feel if we don't do something about changing our view of gangs,drugs,crime,and poverty, soon it will be too late
La Pura Neta

Anonymous said...

Damn we are running with no direction here.

Anonymous said...

Yo!! (raising my hand) I too like to hear T.J., Wally, Willy the Coyote and all the history stuff. Name dropping? Come on, this is the perfect place to name drop. The only people who would be pissed at the name dropping are the bad guys and the wannabe's and those who can't stand the "schoolyard bully". Maybe they took YOUR lunch money when you were a chavalone??

Keep the shit coming Tijuas and Retired Joker and Don Quijadas and Willy the pinchi Coyote!! I'd rather hear about the older vatos anyway than these mocosos.

Shit, it's alllll good! Like a fucking buffet, Mister Anonymous. Some like the fruit, others like frijoles with them fucked up taco shells and imitation Spanish arroz. some like salads. Go for it. I'm treating. No, Wally's treating. Where is Wally? Orale, homes, get your culo back here.

In case you haven't noticed, this is a site for 'GANGS, CRIME, COPS AND POLITICS IN LOS ANGELES' (that's right, the city of the "fallen" angelitos, chingones) so if you read a bias in that direction then, DUH. I wonder why? Tambien, like Wally says, "I welcome news AND ABUSE from neighborhoods, cops and interested parties". so, bring it on y Que Viva Los Angeles, Califas. Whazzup, Hollenbeck??????


East L.A. Boy

SanDiego Homie said...

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Anonymous said...

Inland Empire Veterano:
CO-SIGNED

Anonymous said...

DON Q,
Thanks for clarifying. I do enjoy your posts even if I thought you still like being a part of it. Not even just a little bit?

As for the vato complaing about no direction, what direction would you like to see the blog go? Step up and take it there. Present a good question that will lead this tabla in the direction you want to take it instead of bitchin about it.

Pinche CCPOA website is really slow in posting the latest broncas or I'd be over there for a while.

RetiredJoker said...

Since Wally "Mr. Blogstero" (he needs a nick name, don't ya think?) is taking a lil break. Here's an transcipt from 60 Minutes from May about the Pelican Bay SHU and the NF.
The reason I post it because toward the end of the article the FEDS thought it would be a good idea to transfer the NF Leaders (Their Generals) from Pelcian Bay to other prisons in Illinois and Minnesota, etc.
Saying that they would not flourish in those areas since most NF Memberships is made up of Chicanos from norte Califas.
But as Robert "Huerito" Gratton explains in the interview, that they are greatly mistaken and that NF factions are indeed spreading in those states.
The only way for the NF to keep pace is recruit outside of Califas as well. The NF weren't called the "Blooming Flower" by Prison Guards for nothing. Kinda odd to picture Sureno's and Nortenos fighting in places like Minnesota. Just too damn cold to be fighting, imagine getting clocked in the face in freezing cold? DAMN!

RetiredJoker said...

oops, heres the link...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/05/12/60minutes/main694851.shtml

Anonymous said...

HUERITO GRATTON SUFFERS FROM DELUSIONS OF GRANDEUR. ALL HIS BUSTS WERE FOR STUPID PETTY SHIT. I THINK HE WAS BUSTED FOR SELLING A 1/4 OUNCE WHEN HE DECIDED TO ROLL OVER(thats not a boss move). HIS LAST NAME EVEN HAS A CODED MESSAGE: IT STARTS AFTER THE FIRST LETTER OF HIS NAME AND ENDS AFTER THE FOURTH. GRATTON

Anonymous said...

Hey any of you vatos in L.A. seen the dudes the set free biker vatos what are they are they for real I seen in their website they are drinking pisto and all bikered out but they act like gangsters or y que?

Anonymous said...

(Just becasue you know when Jose "the tortilla killer" Gomez got his hair cut by Leon "the hair arson" lopez doesn't give you the right to hijack every post so you can be long winded with dates and names)

This is why one is able to scroll up or down, to move on to the next comment. Some of us enjoy "the buffet" selection (as one poster commented earlier) and I enjoy reading the details (names included) rather than rambling generalizations that we become accustomed to reading or hearing about.

I don't get excited about some commnents (especially when it goes into politics) but I'm not going to jump on them because I don't like to see details. Hell, I WANT details whenever I can get it.

Also, right now there isn't much to comment about since no new subjects have been posted. So it looks like we see much of what some folks are more familiar with.

Patience.

Real Time Player

Anonymous said...

THE LAME BIKER/GANGSTERS,ARE THE MINGLES (AHAHAA!!)THEY HANG OUT AT THE SHATOU LE'DANGLE!(AHAHA!)
JUST FUCKN AROUND! BUT THEM FOOLS KICKIT WITH GREENLIGHTERS,GANG DROPOUTS,THEY ONLY STEP UP WHEN THEY ARE DEEP,OTHER THAN THAT THEY TRY TO BE SWEET WITH ANY VATO THEY SEE,THEY ACT LIKE(WHATS UP BRO!)REAL NICE!BUT BUMP INTO THEM AT A PLACE WHERE THEY ARE DEEP! THEY START PUNKING EVERYBODY!THEY ARE SUPPOSELY BIKERS?BUT THEY HIT PEOPLE UP(WHERE YOU FROM HOMES!)
C'MON I THOUGHT THEY WERE BIKERS?

Anonymous said...

HUH?

Anonymous said...

So I get to the chante, spark up a J and realize my joke about a coded message in Hueritto Grattons last name wasn't that funny. After the yesca kicks in, I say to myself, " that was a dumb joke."

Anonymous said...

G(RAT)T(ON)

Anonymous said...

so what about those Set Free biker vatos are they for real or what?

Anonymous said...

Has anybody heard anything about you know what?

R2K said...

Hi from NYC!

R2000

Anonymous said...

yeah i heard the surenos are sucking the negros dicks in the pinta....ribit ribit.. lol

Anonymous said...

yeah this that big bad norte XIV till i die no one ever could sever like i do scraps

Anonymous said...

A coward amoung you!!

Most of you don't know the real story behind the new leader of the mongols. The piece of shit has no heart! However he is brilliant at manipulating the young members of your club. Well young members look aroung you and notice!! there are very few of you older brothers. Alot of us have known him for years and saw him @ bars!! when your brothers would roll up, he would want to leave the place quick!! he was afraid (like in the laughlin video!! run!! coward run!!) of the Mongols!! He has no loyalty himor his fat lil punk ass son!! and who and what the fuck is his brother Al doing in the club!! and what chapter is he in?? Your #1 tried to start a club a few years ago and a one of your mongol brother took their patches. Now that brother is no longer in the club. He threw out mean ass brothers from the club. The older brothers know what he is all about!! We know the respect mongols give to their leaders, However this punk doesn't deserve to lead you!! Look what he is doing to you guys!! How much money did you guys pay on dues??? How much money do your attorneys for laughlin?? Have they been paid?? attorneys talk to each other like any regular person. The word gets out. There is noone getting paid for expert witnessing @ this stage of the trial!! (witness Dic's new house and there is are your fees) You guys had (6) defendants you were paying for. Now you only have (4), the cost was suppose to be $750,000.00 for Attorneys, well you no longer are paying for (2) and rumor has it the were to pay $75,000.00 per defendant do the math!! Don't let this Dic dude manipulate you!! be smart!! He talks bad about your previous #1 (throws him out), who got stabbed but have you guys ever heard your previous #1 side of the story?? of course not!! the Dic wants to keep it quiet!! You guys have probably paid well over qa million dollars and have only paid your attorneys around $300,000.00 do the math!! Are you guys able to look @ your books without getting hasseled by Dic?? No way!! Well Dic used to cry about your cabinet before re: the money!! but!! you guys can't!! or he'll come up with a bullshit story about you, if you know what he is up to, and tarnish your name bam your out or your prospecting!!
Here is the forecast as to WhAT THE COWARD AMOUNG YOU WILL DO!!
He will consult on the movie about you get paid a coupl million nothing will go to guys (although because of Dic, you still have problems with neighborhoods and can get killed, that's why he's Dic!!) He will try to write a book and I hope he titles it (I was the coward amoung us), make money and then!! make momey on the patch (selling merchandise) guess who has control of your copy rights. What will you get for your spilled blood and your brothers!! right nothing!! Well one day dic we will look eye to eye and I promise you! I will make you cry!! or you can accept my challenge hear and meet me in a public ring where you and I can put on the gloves!! I am your age!! Last but not least respond coward!! yea you Dic!! and mongols I do not mean any respect to any of you you guys are badass and well respected. Hey Dic should you accpet my challenge, when I kick your ass!! Don't try and have me killed!! I am only one man!! see you soon!!!

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Anonymous said...

i'd like the mexican mafia to get harmed because at many colleges and schools being against gays is seen as uncool and i think we should chain them all to beds and play pro-gay stuff like that's elementary till they become re-educated.

buddaman said...

Man, you guy's really know your criminals. i didn't expect to see Whitey Bulgers name up here.I read a good book about him I think it was called Black Mass. That guy's still free but he's gotta be dead by now, I mean he spent time in Alcatraz ho w old does that make him 90 ? 95? He did have protection from an FBI agent that used to look up to Whitey in his childhood, became an agent , then basically started tipping him off to what the Fed's had on him.His brother was also the Mayor or something like that of Boston.

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Anonymous said...

So does anybody know what ever happened to johnny torres? any bio on that guy? why he turned on them or what he was incarcerated?

Anonymous said...

great site, great info. what about the above comment? im also curious as to what happened to some of the informants. did they get deals or reduced sentences?