Wednesday, June 01, 2005

Thanks to a couple of readers on this one. In 1998, an ATF agent named WILLIAM QUEEN went undercover with the Mongols and operated behind the lines for 28 months. He went by the name of BILLY ST. JOHN. The operation ended with a bunch of indictments and prison sentences. Queen wrote a book about it, UNDER AND ALONE. You can find it on Amazon.

The book is a fast but ultimately not satifying read. He didn't go into enough detail to satisfy the truly curious mind. He didn't explore a lot of areas that I know are out there waiting for exploration. Maybe he was holding back not to screw up future or ongoing investigations. Nonetheless it's a decent enough book and worth the price.

A few readers sent word that the book got some interest from the film business. Apparently it's now official. Mel Gibson is attached to the project, as they say in the biz, and he'll play the Queen/St. John part. Queen scored a $1 million payday for the film rights. He'll also be tech consultant.

While we're always hoping for the best, the movie business has a lousy track record when they turn a "true life" story into a screen product. Especially when it involves crime. In the process of transforming a good story into a movie, the real life aspects are clipped and pruned along the way until most of them are left in the script writer's drawer. What you often see on the screen is nothing like what happened on the streets.

The most extreme example of this happened in 1992 when Edward Olmos made AMERICAN ME. As originally written, the script was an accurate history of the early days of the Eme. The story goes that even Cocoliso blessed the project because it told the truth. But when Olmos decided to make a "few changes" the reality went out the window. The scriptwriter walked away from the project. Unofficial and unpaid "advisors" (Eme dropouts) told the producer that the "changes" would piss off the carnals. Apparently artistic vision took a back seat to the truth. And people paid with their lives.

By the time the dust settled, bodies fell, Olmos was targeted for termination and the movie public was short changed. Even people who knew the real life story walked out of the movie wondering what the hell they just saw on the screen. It was a mess. As it turns out, a deadly one for the official tech advisors.

Hopefully, Gibson won't go the same way Olmos did. But in that business, anything is possible. By the time it's over, it could turn out to be "Biker Gangs from Venus Want Earth Women."

On a related topic, I heard from a pal in the movie business that Tony Scott, brother to Ridley Scott (Gladiator, Blade Runner etc.) is doing a remake of THE WANDERERS. If you young guys out there haven't seen it, rent it. It was an over the top "street gang" movie set in Manhattan. By modern standards, the gangs in that movie were as hard core as Vanilla Ice.

Scott plans on shooting it in LA and we'd love to be there for the open casting calls. Advice: don't cover up those tattoos yet. They'll need hundreds of dressed down homies. Hollywood is comin' to the 'hood so practice up on your mad dog look.


StillNoScript said...

I really have to disagree with you on American Me, Wally.

If a filmmaker (Olmos) makes a film exactly how the subject of the film (J.M.??) sees fit, then the film is merely an advertisement, or commerical, none the less, for the subject; Where as the director just works as a liason, or, let's face it, A BITCH, to the subject.

Here's an example; I'm a Raider fan. However, I just can't stand watching all of these Raider t.v. shows that come on Saturday mornings; The ones that make it seem as if Al Davis is god. The reason for this is because Al Davis produces these shows from his team's headquarters.

Now, EME didn't produce American Me, but had Olmos worked within their approval range, it would have been no different than those half hour Raider shows, the aspect of promoting the subject would have been obvious; And would have come off as cheesy to everyone except for the very people who are connected with the subject; This case, pretty much, Sureno gang members. Sure, it would have been music to their ears. But to the rest of the world it would have come off as an obvious advertisement; Especially accompinied with the available information that the very subjects themselves were consultants to the film.

I've read that the real life subjects weren't too happy about Goodfellas either. Henry Hill was one of the biggest snitches in mob history. He's the lowest of the low, to this day, in cosa nostra circles. Yet, Scorsese made him out to be an innocent, feeble, pretty boy who just walked into a pizzeria and was basically taken in by a pack of mafia wolves; When in real life Henry Hill was a typical neighborhood bad boy. Scorsese did this for dramtical purposes, plain in simple. And Luchesse Family associates, some of whom which worked as consultants on the film, could not have been pleased with Scorsese's holier-than-thout image he painted Hill with.

As a filmmaker, the film comes first. The vision comes first. That's it. That's cinema.

Any blood that was shed as a result of anyone's objection to American Me should be blamed on those who deliberatly inflicted the bloodshed; And I hope some of us haven't lost sight of that.

Anonymous said...

This undercover agent is gonna make money,mel gibson is gonna make money,the film most likely will be over dramatic and far from the truth.....I wonder if mel will also include that that motorcycle gang has varrio dropouts,even greenlighters kick it with them,I never knew of a motorcycle gang that had members that dont even know how to ride a bike,that walk and try to talk like cholos,That go up to people and ask where their from,and claim that motorcycle gang,but yet they ranked out on their first hood.
Im confused,anyone else?
and whats with the white guys and their shwashtika(i got the spelling wrong)tattoos on their arms,i thought it was a latino bike gang,anybody know?

Anonymous said...

I see we have another chit talker that doesnt know what she's talking about..

Anonymous said...

Go back and read do some homework my friend.

Anonymous said...

OKAY....i guess u didnt watch the
Chris Blatchford news special,there was a white guy with racist tattoos,plus the uc agent
is white to begin with,maybe im wrong but didnt he climb up the ranks to be the clubs treasurer?
or did some one else go in undercover as well?and if you go to the places they hang out at,
you'll see that many of them are former gangsters.They kick it with
LOWELL(greenlighters).Well atleast
in the northeast area.

Anonymous said...

hehehe your remarks are too funny
get out in the real world instead of believing the tv lol

Anonymous said...

Ahahaa!!!! look whos talking!this is the real world,try camachos(industry),the muse(old town pas.)
walk in there....see for your self!

Anonymous said...

For starters, we haven't seen the finished Mel Gibson product yet and any criticsm is premature. Let's give Mr. Gibson a chance to show how good his research is. After all, 1)these type of movies are only as good as their technical advisors; provided that 2)the directors don't deviate too drastically from their advisors' input.
In American Me, their advisors were excellent people: former CDC and SSU expert + former EME members. In the case of American Me, you had a brilliant actor (Mr. Olmos) turned producer who produced a first rate movie on a)the EME and some of its characters (it was indeed based on some true life EME icons), b)extremely believable actors in the sense that they accurately depicted the lingo, lifestyle and prison mannerisms despite minor deficiencies (BGF's Doc Holliday would never have said, (paraphrasing): "I'm not going up against the (gunrail guard's) guns".
Where they got themselves in trouble was when Mr. Olmos made a decision to include one scene (Santana, true life Cheyenne Cadena) being raped in Juvenile Hall. First of all, it did not happen; Secondly, had it happened, he might have been applauded by the inmate population for retaliating the way he did but he NEVER would have been made an EME member, let alone a respected leader; and, thirdly, Mr. Olmos went against the advice given to him by his technical advisors. My source was at a restraunt meeting at Colima Restaraunt in downtown L.A. about 10 years ago. At that diner, a Prison Gang agent and EME's Mundo Mendoza met with Edward James Olmos and a former CDC Associate Warden who was also an advisor to Olmos on American Me. There Olmos admitted to going against the advice of his people and inserting the scene that later cost the lives of at least three people connected to the movie. At this sit down, Mundo specifically advised Olmos to not engage the EME in any dialogue because he would then open the door to their diabolical desires (Extortion). About a month later Mundo told Olmos (in a telephone conversation) that he should warn Manuel "Rocky" Luna that he too could be earmarked for execution because of his invovlement in American Me.
Olmos never took this advice and proceeded to "grease the palms" of the EME. An EME RICO indictment indeed included one count of extortion (EME vs. Edward James Olmos). Did Edward J. see this as an opportunity to mete out justice to the people who had "taken out" his advisors (Anna Lizarraga, Charles "Charlie Brown" Manriquez and Manuel "Rocky" Luna)? Nope. Instead he weaseled his way out of having to testify and persuaded the feds to not proceed with that count. It was dropped. The bad guys in that RICO round were convicted but Olmos had shown his colors. This Surfer-turned-wannabe cholo, although a brilliant actor, ran and hid when his people needed him. Did he warn Rocky Luna of his impending demise. It seems not as shortly after the warning, Rocky was blown away by an EME triggerman.
But life goes on.


Still No Script said...


Olmos put the rape scene; And the scene where Santana gets murdered by his own, (Where in real life we know that the person Santana's character was based upon was killed by a rival prison gang) for dramatical purposes because that's what he felt made his film better.

This was not an independent film. I don't have the facts, but I can see from the finished product of "Me" that Universal pumped some serious cash into it. The camera shots, the locations, could just tell that a great deal of time and money were put into this film's production.

Therefore, as an industry film maker, which Olmos is in this instance, he has an obligation from a business standpoint to see that the story of this film breaks through to as many demographs as possible; To return as much of a profit as possible. (In other words, make sure white people get the movie.)

As far as the bloodshed surrounding the film; Isn't it possible that the consultants...and olmos himself, for that matter, could have been targeted by the rival prison gang had he done the movie the way EME members wanted him to?

Cause I could imagine had he done it their way there would have been more insults thrown at the Nuestra Familia in the film than just them being, "lame farmers". I imagine the film would have been riddled with insults to the North; Thus pissing them off to a degree where the film would be putting the consultants in equal danger.

Frankly, I'm saddened that Olmos, regardless of turning in one helluva film in his directorial debut in American Me; Has pretty much shelved his aspirations of directing. In my view, he should be doing films like American Me the way Martin Scorsese has done films about Cosa Nostra crews.

American Me should have been just one of many films made by Olmos about the California gang life-cycle; As opposed to being a re-occuring nightmare that riddles him with guilt.

And to anyone who wonders why we haven't seen a decent film about latino gangs on the west coast since American Me, and, unfortunately, probably never will again; We now know why.

Anonymous said...

good comment!T.J.
Hopefully MEL GIBSON doesn't
screw the movie,as OLMOS did,its good to see that theres other people besides me that think OLMOS
is a fake,I say it because he is latino,he portrays himself as a man
that is there for LA RAZA,but i never seen him on the EASTSIDE,not even at our schools,he could of set an example to our gente,even though he wasnt from the varrio the kids could maybe see him as a role model,he has the funds and the pull,to take action in a positive way and help our varrios,atleast stand up and be a voice for us,but he doesnt(correct me if im wrong),but hollywood and even raza(some not all)see him as a real LATINO,like if he was from our varrio some where and came up in life and he represents us all,with his PBS specials and interveiws that are entertainning,but they dont get to the core and nitty gritty of community,and he gets alot of credit for his ENTERTAINMENT,thats all it is ENTERTAINMENT,......
CHARLIE SEANS father does more for la raza than OLMOS,now a REAL LATINO is OSCAR DELAHOYA,lived in the varrio,was a championship boxer,gold medals,super stardom,and he still comes back to party with his people(Q.C's montebello)and many other clubs,you'll even spot him in EAST L.A. driving around,eating at our mom and pop restaurants,our malls,just like he did when he wasn't famous,then theres the good part......He help open a cancer center in boyle heights at WHITE MEMORIAL hospital years back,not only that he has sponsered countless youth programs and mentoring programs,gyms,parks and schools as well,and now he is started a housing developement,for
low income people,where he is giving people a chance to be home owners,all this for our people,he hasnt forgotten where he came from,
he rose,became famous,got rich,and he is still around and giving back,
He may of moved away(i would)(if i could)but he hasnt forgoten,he never faked the funk,what MAGIC is to black people,OSCAR is to us,and
i think thats a real LATINO.......

Anonymous said...

Well if your gonna make money
off other peoples misfortunes then your gonna have problems,I say.
If you want to shed light on gang issues then pump your money on intervention programs,i think that would be a better investment.

Anonymous said...

No Script ...

Your assessment is right on, my friend. But there is a problem. When you are dealing with deadly cartels you may not necessarily seek their approval to proceed with your piece BUT you better not take creative license in some very vital and sensitive areas. For example, if Carlo Gambino were to be depicted giving oral to an inmate at a county jail in his early years because "I think it will deter youngsters from going to jail" (Olmos paraphrased quote at Colima Restaurant to ex-EME member) then no matter what cinematic justification we may place on this, one opens himself up to some serious anger to say the least.
Yes, it is the bad guys who are responsible for the drastic actions they took after "Me", but you don't poke and poke into a hornets nest and not expect the bees to get riled. Would Olmos have inserted this scene had he known the repercussions? Hell no. But if he were as plugged into their way of thinking as he fancied himself to be (or, better yet, had he listened to his CDC advisor and I'm sure this will be address in someone's "libro") then we bypass all the post-"ME" action. The EME probably didn't like the part of Chy being killed by his own bro's, nor Chy doing his lady from the caboose position nor EME people being punked by some BGF people on the streets, etc. etc. but none of this is as flagrant as portraying an icon (Rudy "Cheyenne" Cadena aka: Santana) being punked in a jail cell. Once again: EME did not want Olmos to do an EME film. Their official position would be: "We don't want ANY fucking movie made about us". Their unofficial position would be one of being amused and flattered at the movie and, like their Italian counterparts, they would applaud the accurate depictions and hoot at the inaccurate ones. But once any director or producer flagrantly "crosses that line" then insane heads will tend to prevail --- sad, but obviously true.
His movie was otherwise extremely accurate and so much realism was in this flick that many people tend to forget that this was a work of FICTION based on true life characters. It was so close to real that I found people saying, "Hey, Joe and Cheyenne weren't raised together"; "Mundo was the 2nd generation of EME soldiers, not the first"; "That's not how Joe Morgan ("J.D.") lost his leg!"; etc, etc. My response was: Remember, this is a non-fiction movie based on real life characters!
The NF "farmers" were anything but lame (in real life) but they were of a different caliber of convict. Any ex-con will tell you this FACT. No favoritism is intended. Just like Maravilla was not in their league either. Maravilla resented the fact that their place of prestige with Chicano convicts was immediately supplanted with the emergence of the EME. In fact, the EME recruited their toughest leaders (Gabriel "Little Sluggo" Castaneda, Frank "Big Sluggo" Castaneda, Richard "Riko" Diaz, Rafael "Chispas" Sandoval, Alejandro "Moe" Ferrel, Daniel "Spider" Arriaga, Joseph "Rebel" Barranday, Juan "Green Eyes" Gonzalez, "Cheneno" Jordan, and many more) from the Maravilla gangs.
The NF, aka: Northern Farmers (a derisive nickname EME gave them in San Quentin in 1970) were very intimidated by L.A. convicts (after the 1968 Shoe War, which is a story you might want to really read about in detail somewhere - Mundo's CD or book whenever it comes out).
EME convicts were prevented from going to S.Q. main population by Sgt. Hankins working in close concert with the N.F. and some Maravilla members. Many Maravilla members vehemently objected to "working with the man" as this was seen by the General Pop as tantamount to organized snitching. But it happened nevertheless until small numbers of EME members, assisted by a few AB members succeeded in terrorizing the NF, Maravilla and it's Northern Cal allies off the San Quentin yard. When the dust settled in 1973 (this was after Chy's death in Palm Hall in Dec.-1972) staff once again intervened and placed the various factions in separate facilities once and for all.
Staff succeeded in preventing the genocide of the NF back then and today the NF is indeed a formidable gang for law enforcement to contend with. But, we are not living in the past. The NF, in those days, were indeed "lame farmers" and so inferior to the EME in quality that you can almost write a book about it. Prison guards, prison administrators and the general convict population will give you first hand accounts of a handful of EME members working in concert with a smaller amount of AB members and wreaking havoc on an entire yard. Numbers never matter to these guys and their arrogance, coupled with their prowess, made them ruthless and the scorn of the California Department of Corrections. They wanted the EME and AB (and the BGF, I need to add) erased from the earth.
Today the EME (and the NF) have more important things to do in their criminal endeavors than to seek to make their rivalry a blown out priority. In prison, ok, maybe a different story when and if their paths cross. The North-South thing is probably an EME-NF chess game - a "war being fought by proxy". It is the EME's way and the NF's way of controlling the street gangs in their geographical locations of preference. Those in law enforcement who say this is a Big War tend to miss what is really going on.
As for EME desiring control over how they are depicted, we don't see EME hitting any newspaper reporters, do we? They print unflattering stuff about the gangs but they research carefully, quote sources, manuscripts, police reports and no one comes after them. Different perception for sure ..... apples and oranges.
When an EME hit on "Dido" Moreno turned into the massacre of an entire El Monte household (two infants included) the stories circulated about an EME hit on a defenseless family. EME does not wage war on children, old women and (unless they are eyewitnesses to a hit and it can't be helped) innocent folks. Did they go after the newspapers who depicted them as such? Did they go after 60 Minutes for doing a piece depicting this horrible massacre?
There is a responsibility attached to doing a movie about a sensitive matter and the feedback can range from a mild gay protest in North Hollywood (if a movie depicting gays in a negative light were produced) to what happened in "ME".
Hopefully, Mr. Olmos will forgive himself for errors he could not forsee and return to what he does best. A dose of humble pie is not a bad thing. If he conducts his research as diligently as he always has, he'll be alright.
As StillNoScript says, we will probably not see a prison gang movie the caliber of Olmos' work until Olmos decides to come back and do his thing without worrying about what the EME thinks. If he "listens" to his advisors, he'll be just fine.
If he is a real "Chicano" then he will look to do the right thing for the community before he leaves this planet.

Mr. Olmos, "Stand and Deliver" and don't allow yourself to be spooked.


Anonymous said...

TO: good comment!T.J.

I don't think Olmos is necessarily a fake. He grew up in Montebello and was a surfer at Montebello High School. A bright guy who did not allow the cholo life to pull him into gangs. But he saw the "respect" the cholos commanded; he saw the "fear" that they generated; he saw the "status" they enjoyed.
This "image" that E.O. bought into as the years elapsed (from Zoot Suit to Stand and Deliver to American Me) made him an authority on Chicano life, especially the L.A. lifestyle in general and the gang lifestyle too.
I still remember an appearance he made on a late night show. He was very articulate, spoke proper English to the show host, had insightful solutions to the "gang problem" and was an impressive representative of the Chicano community.
Then, a gang member was brought on stage and E.O. completely transformed into a vato loco. His impeccable English descended into one-syllable words and the inflection on his accent then became very profound. I guess you can say he turned into Cheech Marin. While I understand the necessity to "adapt to an environment" in order to communicate with people, I felt offended for this gang member as E.O. demonstrated his acting abilities at this guy's expense. It's possible that I was/am too sensitive but it surely rubbed me the wrong way.
I think E.O. is a tremendous influence on the Chicano community and the fact that we are so closely scrutinizing his moves, his mistakes, his successes, his deficiencies and opining (is this a word?) on these only serves to prove that this guy could continue to be a fantastic asset to his people.
I don't know if we can expect E.O. to come back to "party with his people" but I get your point. FYI, E.O. does hit many of the local mom and pop places and he has been involved in countless functions that benefit Chicanos but I think he probably wants to "lay low" for a while. Like you, like me, he deserves his private time.

Tijuana Jailer

Anonymous said...

Great post bro.

StillNoScript said...

T.J. Jailer...Thanks for clearing up so much. I won't even ask where you got all of that info. from; I'll just open my ears and take your word.

I guess I'm just very stubborn when it comes to artistic license. But, if I ever did make a movie about gangs, and I was faced with the proposition of taking out a scene or facing consequnces, I imagine your words will come in handy. I still dont' know how I would really handle that.

Again, Thanks again for the input.

Anonymous said...

Good stuff TJ,
I was in Palm Hall with Rock and Charlie Brown their last tour before getting wacked. I think Manual thought something was up. He was not looking too happy on the yard and delegated responcabilty on the southern/wood yard. A couple cats from OC Gabby and OSO from 5th street SA had the yard until Puppet from EMF I belive showed up.
It was a strange time in Palm Hall and lots of politicing was going on.Someone got stabbed about once every other yard.I think it was all about that movie and guys taking the heat off themselfs by causing trouble. They put Shyrock on the tier as a wood for a month and every cop in the place knew who he was. Like they wanted him to admit his afilation so they could build a case against him. The gaurds were taking pictures of us from the little tower in the middle of the yard every day. I hit a dude for Vese ( spelling)? the samoan from west side 18th because they could not get to him. It was for nothing, but you got to do what you gotta do.It was nuts and I think it was all because of that flic.

Anonymous said...

Maybe OLMOS should make a movie
about the RAMPART SCANDAL,you know
even out his odds,lets see him try
and make a movie as close as he can to the real thing,but remember
it would be a movie of FICTION based on true life characters.....
(think 5-O would fall for that)

StillNoScript said...

5-0 doesn't have a choice! The L.A.P.D. is public domain and nationally known, therefore not protected in entertainment copywright law or any privacy laws.

This means Olmos can have a character named OFFICER GATES, have him using racial slurs and talking of nazi-style tactics to supress gang activity; And there's nothing the real life Gates could do about it. (It would be pretty close to the truth, anyhow.)

I understand what people like Tijuana Jailer are talking about; In that when you are making a film about large street gangs or drug cartels, you have to be careful not to cross lines that carry consequences of street justice. It's obviously something a film maker has to take into consideration.

But I would never make the same consideration for law enforcement agencies that may be the subject of my film; Real or fictionally based upon. Part of this great country is the first ammendment and the right to desent; without it, we might as well move to Russia.

Anonymous said...

To the homie that was in Palm Hall, good podt bro but I know there is more to that story please post some more that is interesting stuff.

Anonymous said...

I would talk more about that issue in Palm Hall, but that could get strange with feds being able trace isp and dns numbers.

Anonymous said...


(anti-gang unit comin)
GOTTA GO!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

I know they can and do wathc sites like this, but you asked me to go more into that situation in Palm Hall and most of it gets pretty messy. Folks got hurt and I did somethings that might be used against me. I was tipped and now live in a state far away from my hometown got kids and a wife. That life is far behind me.
But if you must pry, Allot of people that ended up in court or on the news went through Palm Hall back then. Chuco was there for a minute so was veneno from pamona along Blinky Eddie Bernet and some Brand. The Sur would give the Crips hell and the woods would give the Northerners and Bloods hell on the Trid tier. There is no place in the system like Palm Hall anymore. It is like old Folsom back in the 80's. I was in both and seems like the same thing. You could look down on the PC's when they got yard and you would say "Whoa,who would of thought that guy would lock it up" Saw Silent mike over there, Ronny Carter and a whole slew of ex-eMe. I spend a whole lot of time there in cypress seg in the back for guys who were raising thier hand for too much. Puppet was a strange guy. We were having a pow wow with the woods on the yard and he said how the woods were doing all the work and we should start hitting people. I watched as some of the other brothers rolled eyes and you could tell they was thinking " here we go".. Veneno was the only one that really was down for it too. He just has this sick look in his eye. He got made behind that thing at CRC when some ex-NF rolled up and Blackie Amaya and Tortuga (Mr Black Angels) and Veneno stabbed the guy while he was sleeping in his bunk. Now this is the story I got, I could be off a bit. But that Northerner jumped off his bunk a started swinging real good.Put up a good fight until he dropped. They talked real respectful about the man. Old man Rock was as I said before, on his toes. He was scared of the whites too, I think he figured that a Brand hit might be better politicaly for La eMe,because then it would not seem like they kiilled a respected Veterano like Manual. He was harmless and just an old dopefiend. I ran into him off of York and Verdugo one time and gave him a shot on the cuff. He was drinking wine and just doing his own thing. Outside of Big Hazzard he really didn't act like a brother. He was like any old junkie running around LA. Back to Palm Hall, you had that CAC ( Criminal Activaties Coordinator) Duarte with this cock eye. He would put stuff in the game, Like saying one guy dropped out or was running his mouth. People bought it too, guys got hit for no reason. Fake paperwork was all over the place. One guy I stabbed was suposed to be a chester, turned out he did have some smut on him, but he was not a chester. He just burnt John S. and Shyrock in high power at County. Crazy shit, at that time I wasn't going around raisng my hand for drug debts. You gotta understand that the brand and eMe are basicaly one. The Brand needs the eMe in CDC and in the feds the Brand has allot more pull, so it works out for every one. Lots of folks think that it is just the woods hanging on us. But I got it straight from TOPO, that with out the Brand things could get real rough in the Feds for us. Too many Vato's from TS,and other tips that got it out for the Sur after having a hard time in CDC. SO it is more symbiotic then it seems. I remeber some guy up on the third tier that was white but was with 18th Street , got into a crash and got beat to death. You could hear the wood beating him to death for about an hour or so. Like I said something happend every week. Spearing on the tier, all kinds of stuff.

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

I heard about the spearings before, but what is brand and what is a crash?

Anonymous said...

The Brand is the woods (AB).

Anonymous said...

I could tell allot more, but man it just seemed to go on and on. I was in Palm Hall for over a year and a half and you don't usualy stay more then 90 days to how ever long it takes to ship you out to one of the SHU units or if your SHU term runs out while you are waiting to a level four yard.
I was waiting to see if the DA picked up my cases. It was one of those " No Humans Involved" things. That is the way it was back then. They would say "We are going give you life for this" then the DA would not choose to prosecute because of lack of witnesses that are willing to testify. They will tell on you anonomously in the 115 hearing, but not in open court.For those who do not know, half the guys that are in the SHU for gang activaty are in there because of confidentail information given in 115 hearings. Just imagine that you are doing life and got sent to the hole for a simple fight, next thing you know you have a tipped up cellie, and then you get into a fight or anything and they assume you did it on orders. Well if you do not tell on every one you ever met that is or is suspected of being a prison gang member, then you are in the hole( SHU ) for life.... That is the is the Fact Jack!!

Anonymous said...


StillNoScript said...

A lot of this really sickens me.

I always knew the guards were corrupted and turned the other cheek to gang violence. Everyone knows that conservatives in politics like to keep prisons as violent as possible, so that liberal middle class whites will eventually just shut up, work, and be happy that they're employed and not amongst those that have to survive on the streets and in prisons.

But now I'm convinced it's even deeper than that. It's almost like it's a game to the corrections system.

Hearing some of them talk about the gangs on these pbs programs and national geographic, etc; Is like hearing a rancher laugh about how fun it is to watch his cattle get butchered.

It's become a sick, sadistic game; And those of you that have been there will probably tell me that it always has been. I'm sure the Indians could tell me it's always been that way; Being that they were the first to get a taste of European outcast-led Imperialism.

I'm not proud to be an American right now. Our prison system is an eyesore. It's almost to the point now where when someone points at Abraham Lincoln and the Civil War, someone else can just say, "yeh, but, look at the prisons today."

I appreciate hearing some of your stories; It's just too bad these stories will never see the light of day in our corporate owned press. To them, you guys are just scumbags doing time.

To me, you guys are a face of America that will never be seen in the mainstream, at least not justifiably.

Now do you guys see why I stuck up for Edward James Olmos' and American Me, regardless of how bad it made EME look? In my eyes, he opened a window to our counter-culture that we just won't see anywhere else. Ane because of the consequences he faced, on the street, for making that film at the disapproval of a few, we'll likely never see that window open again.

Anonymous said...

"The Wanderers"? Do you mean The Warriors?

Anonymous said...

RE:StillNoScript said...
[A lot of this really sickens me.

I always knew the guards were corrupted and turned the other cheek to gang violence.]

Hey, cheer up. It's not as bad as it sounds. Once upon a time, the California Department of Corrections made an attempt at placing the emphasis on "rehabilitation" first, punishment second. Guess what happened? Prison gangs were born, they were nourished as they flourished, and hardcore convicts (a small percentage of the convict population, I might add) decided to exploit this "chink" in the CDC armor. Guards, prison employees and fellow convicts were murdered at an unprecedented rate and then the CDC decided to revert to punishment first, rehabilitation second.
The "bad apples" in the CDC have always existed in similar ratios as, say dirty cops on the streets. When you have the human element factor, there is no way we will have a perfect system. So the bad guards will always exist and when they are exposed (not always an easy task with the way cops and guards and gang members tend to employ the "old buddy" system and "code of silence") they are eradicated from their positions of authority.
Let's take a look at the real culprits: the cons themselves. The hell hole they live is the hell hole they create and the peer pressure is indeed enormous.
As long as a SMALL PERCENTAGE of individuals call the shots in the 'hood and make life miserable for the majority of good people in the Hispanic and Black communities, a similar SMALL PERCENTAGE of prison gang members are doing the same in the California prison system and is now spreading it's Gospel to the Federal Bureau of Prisons.
According to exerpts I read from Mundo's manuscript, and talking to fellow law enforcement people who worked the PGTF (Prison Gang Task Force) the EME itself in 1976 through 1978 began an odyssey to the Federal Prison System that today, with the AB at their side, permeates the entire federal prison system "like a cancer" (quote from Mundo).
During a dry spell in which Joe Morgan, "Robot" Salas and Mundo awaited the heroin re-supply from Mexican drug boss Jesus "Chuy" Araujo, these guys actively discussed pulling bank robberies to generate quick cash AND, should they be arrested, they "knew" they would go to the feds where they were not known and could circulate freely, recruit without hindrance and control their prison settings with little or no detection from the prison authorities. Yes, Samantha, they actually discussed this amongst themselves !!!!
Here is the lineup of bank robberies pulled by EME between 1976 and 1978): Martin "Kato" Vargas and Manuel "Tati" Torres accompanied by Daniel "D.C." Cavanaugh (AB)in Fresno; Adolph "Champ" Reynoso and William "Puppet" McKinley (AB) hit a Thousand Oaks bank; John "Bob Steele" Quinones pulled a string of bank robberies in the southland;
Phillip "Black" Segura, Donald "Stoney" Galaz, Marcello "Gabby" Baeza, William "Willie Bobo" Gouveia, Robert "Black Bobby" Ramirez, Paul "Huero Tres" Portillo, Daniel "Choco" Montellano, and many more hit So Cal banks. All, except for maybe two of the above mentioned, were subsequently arrested, charged and convicted of bank robbery, introduced into the federal prison system and joined other imprisoned EME and AB brothers in that system. Many of the above are doing "all day" (life and then some).
Despite Mundo's warnings ("house them all in one facility and you will not allow the cancer to get a foothold)which the PGTF passed on to the feds, they chose to scatter them throughout their system.
Call them naive, ignorant or blatantly stupid, their response to us was covered in one statement: "We have the REAL Mafia here".
They never understood that the EME, if they excelled in one thing it was controlling an incarcerated setting like no other group before them or since, and making life miserable for the MAJORITY of inmates.
So, yes, while the "bad apples" in the CDC do indeed exist (and should be dealt with severely since they should maintain a higher standard), it is the convict who ultimately decides if his pigpen is to be a comfortable environment or a filty sty.
I share your disgust with the bad guards but I can tell you that it is not as prevalent as one may think. Don't let the bad guys distract from the nightmare these real "bad asses" are perpetuating.



Anonymous said...

THis is the dude from Palm Hall, TJ is not completely off on this. I was talking about how someguys get railroaded. I was not one of them. I did wrong and deserved what I got. But there are bad situations all around. Most the Bull's are just working guys who get better money then anyother job they could get with their skills and education. They work hard in a bad place with alot of people that are not verry happy to say the least.

Anonymous said...

aren't most motorcycle clubs logos and names copyrighted and trademarked? How can they be reproduced and used in a movie without permission?

seasidewino said...

what u homies think about a real life tale about a veterano oc wood and his life in las pintas y las calles. he was true with many of the carnales and has their respeto. this dude is as rea l as they come. he says he willing to kick up whats sure its fair, but who knows? im wondering, should i help my compa with this, or am i asking for drama?

Anonymous said...

hey u oc vatos?Is this the only big homie you ever had?

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